92 GT Stall/Stumble Woes

92 GT Stall/Stumble Woes (MSD 6a issues)

Greetings all - been lurking a while, first time posting. Recently picked up a not-so-gently used 92 GT for a bit of a project/driver and have run into a host of issues since then. Most recently was it all the sudden stalling and not generally not running/wanting to start, just boom, out of the blue.

Yes, I read the sticky. It's printed off and sitting in my pass. seat in my 'project' car.

Anyway, I went though a ton of stuff before I found that sticky here and just last night I bypassed the MSD 6a box and presto it fired right up, no problems. In the process of trying to isolate I took just about everything apart so I need to go back today (hopefully) and start to clean it all up. While it starts and appears to be strong now, there is still a bit of a stumble when giving it throttle.

Back to the 6a. When it was in, all of the sudden at a light when taking off it would try to stall, backfire, feel like it was missing out on WAY more than 1 or 2 and was barely able to limp it home. Lots of horns honking at me. Once home, I could barely get it started and keep it running. And when I did it was only because I kept messing with the timing and had it set to nearly 30 with spout out (yeah, I know). Anyway, pulled it (6a) out of the equation last night and its started right up. Timing back to 12'ish and its still fine, just throttle stumbles.

Question is - Is there any one particular thing that would cause the 6a to fail or all of the sudden not play nice or is it just weak to begin with? I don't know much of the history of this car as I bought it used. I know it has been beaten so I am excited to give her a good home. She has a VERY solid body but needs a ton of work. Not a spot of rust. Needs a bunch of nickle and dime and well, higher dollar stuff! Lots of mods already done. Right now I am still trying to sort out my confusion over compter+MAF+injector size decable (EGR delete too - guy just bolted a piece of steel to the port :nonono: ).

Thanks guys - curious for your thoughts. I'd sure like it to be something else possibly tripping this 6a up since its already in the car, but if its junk, its junk. If it helps, I'll post a mod list below. Note: I realize that there are a lot of mismatched things the previous owner did. I bought it as a project. However, any pointers and tips would be helpful. Its been a **LONG** time since I have done this. :rolleyes:
 
306
E7 ported/polished
Edelbrock upper/lower
e303
Keith Black Flat tops
Crane (Fomoco stamped) 1.7 rollers
6a (now inop)
MSD Coil
CAI (looks to be frankensteined)
F1ZF-12B579-AA
24lbr's
A9L
EGR delete (need to read up on this more)
Unknown brand headers to offroad 3" to Flowmaster 44 series (no tails)
4.10's
Underdrive pulleys
A/C Delete
Zoom Stage 3 clutch
Custom rips in the drivers seat :nice:, stains in carpet and mismatched tail lights.

I am sure there is more I am forgetting - forgive me, still on first cup 'o' joe.
 

Attachments

  • pony.webp
    pony.webp
    141.8 KB · Views: 123
MSD stands for "May Suddenlet Die". There is no rhyme or reason, they just quit working. If you have one that hasn't died, but appears to be on the way out, be glad you found it before you got standed somewhere.

A good descripiton of the CAI would help. Any system that picks up air from the engine compartment is a problem causer.

The stumble could be a number of things: start by dumping the computer codes.

Dumping the computer diagnostic codes on 86-95 Mustangs

Revised 26-July-2011. Added need to make sure the clutch is pressed when dumping codes.

Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.

Post the codes you get and I will post 86-93 model 5.0 Mustang specific code definitions and fixes. I do not have a complete listing for 94-95 model 5.0 Mustangs at this time.

Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. On a manual transmission car, be sure to press the clutch to the floor.
Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.

Underhoodpictures007-01.webp


Underhoodpictures010.webp


If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.

attachment.php


The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.

89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.

attachment.php


The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.


WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.

What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems. This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and driveablity problems

Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off, and clutch (if present) is pressed to the floor, and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.

Or for a nicer scanner see Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader (3145) – It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.
Or for a nicer scanner see http://www.midwayautosupply.com/p-7208-equus-digital-ford-code-reader-3145.aspx– It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.
 

Attachments

  • Underhoodpictures007-01.webp
    Underhoodpictures007-01.webp
    49 KB · Views: 116
  • Underhoodpictures010.webp
    Underhoodpictures010.webp
    71.3 KB · Views: 140
Thanks for the pointers - Ill give it a try. Went back to work on it and it was hard starting again. Got it started and it would idle smooth (relatively considering whats there) and then went to go drive. As soon as I put it under any sort of a load it would start backfiring and missing and stalling. Back to the drawing board. I'm really questioning fuel pump/pressure now.

More work tomorrow...date night tonight!
 
Okay - the CAI is what appears to be some sort of a custom hack job. Perhaps I should find a stock filter fox and tubing. Anyway, the angles appear to be okay and it has a conical filter tucked up inside the fender so at least its not sitting in the engine compartment. Im still trying to find a fuel pressure gauge/sensor to test that (nobody I know seems to have one and I am broke at the moment). Im gonna go check your guides step by step. I dont have an analog meter nor a test light but a digital meter. I have never seen the check engine light fire so I suspect its burned out. Will go work on it in a bit and get a replacement for it soon and try to pull the codes for the first time - hesitant to pull the inst. pod as the top two screw attachment points are cracked (one more thing on my list to fabricate/fix. If anyone in the Kansas City area is bored this afternoon, feel free to PM me here and come help/watch! ;-):)
 
Okay – Updates.

Pulled codes:

- Key on, engine off – 35 85 35 85 35 35
- Key on, engine running – 12 94 44 34 13 12 94 44 34 13

- Swapped out Mass air – had a spare of the same PN (see above). Cleaned it first. Appeared to be in good shape. When I would start car with it (tried this 5-6 times), it would run for precisely 35 or 36 seconds and then stumble, RPM’s would just suddenly then reduce over a period of 1-2 seconds and it would stall. Put back stock MAF, no issues idling. However, when I try to drive it (put any sort of load on it) it will start popping and stall out. Could barely get it back up the driveway.

- Put the 6a back on and it acts the same so I am not entirely certain that is it.

- Thus far, just due to poor condition of parts I have replaced plugs, wires, factory ICM (on side of distr.), fuel filter. #8 is really fouled, Ill deal with that once I get it running again I suppose. ;-(

- As it stands now, when I stab the gas, it stumbles, like its getting TOO much gas, strangely enough. I believe it is running rich, just from the smell of things. Stand around too long when its running and you will be, well…lots of gas smell.

- I went to check the timing again and traced #1 and noted that it appears to be 180 degrees out give or take. So, I checked em all. I think the previous owner put the distro in out of whack. See attached. Presuming I am not blind, I recognize that 1-4 are pass. Side, 5-8 are drivers side, front to back. That is what I used to trace this. They appear to be on in order, just almost completely 180 degrees out. So, I presume that maybe the previous owner put the distro in backwards and just adjusted the plug wires. Not sure how that would impact me and the issues I am having, but it doesn’t explain the fact I have put a couple thousand miles on this car since I got it in June and then ALL OF THE SUDDEN at one stop light it started doing this. Maybe I am wrong. Again, see attached image. I am having a hard time wrapping my brain around this one and what it could possibly mean. Guy claimed to have put an e303 in here not too terribly long ago. I am REALLY starting to question him knowing what the hell he was doing… (See dizzy.jpg)


Hope this all helps. I am at a loss here. Thank you all for your help. I am sure its probably something stupid and simple that I am overlooking. I just want to get her running again so I am have a stable base to work with.
 

Attachments

  • dizzy.webp
    dizzy.webp
    69.4 KB · Views: 152
F1ZF-12B579-AA. Below that I see AFH55-03B (does this mean 55mm?). If so, is it safe to assume that they are NOT matched? I have no idea what the computer is adjusted/calibrated for. It looks like its been pulled out before, but I have done nothing more to it than give it a quick look see, without moving it.

Having said all of that, is this something that would cause the sudden total un-driveability issues when it was at least functional before...?

Image attached.
 

Attachments

  • maf.webp
    maf.webp
    78.9 KB · Views: 148