Engine 93 Mustang - Low engine vacuum at idle

Ant01n3

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Oct 31, 2017
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Sorry this is a long one. Ok I’ve been dealing with misfire/intake popping on my 93 mustang for almost a year now and I think I’ve finally narrowed the issue down. I was finally able to put a vacuum gauge on the car. It only reads 6 inches at idle. The engine is a 302 with afr 165 heads and Comp Cams NX274hr cam. I talked to Comp Cams and they said I should be around 12 to 15 inches with this cam. Engine codes for the car show 41/91. Please believe me when I say I’ve been down the 41/91 diagnosing. I’ve replaced the o2 sensors (they were actually bad).

I also replaced a weak fuel pump and a bad a FPR that would not hold fuel pressure. I verified the orange ground fire is attached to the intake manifold. Here is the tricky part, for the most part she holds steady vacuum at 6 inches but occasionally the vac will drift up to 10 to 12 inches and the idle will rise from the normal 800 rpm to 1100 rpm and hold. When this happens the car drives great. No misses, no pops or anything but when the idle lowers to the normal 800 rpm, the problems resurface. The problems (intake popping/misfires) only occurs in drive when increasing load. It revs fine in neutral and does not pop. I’ve tried to close the TB outlet and close the PCV vac hose to try the get the car to stall but it remains running.

Am I 100% on intake gaskets guys? When I spray water, brake cleaner around the lower there is no change in idle. I guess the leak must be somewhere between the runners. When the problems started I did notice my coolant levels were dropping slowly, so I re-torqued the lower because I noticed some of the bolts were loose and the leakage stopped but the gaskets but must have already been compromised at that point. I even pulled and re-dropped the distributor at its set exactly at 10 degrees BTDC. Could I have valve(s) leakage or stuck open? Any suggestions will be appreciated.
 
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It is possible you have a vacuum leak in the lifter valley along the bottom of the intake. That will cause the 02s to read lean.

I have a test procedure for that; read on...

Finding vacuum leaks

Revised 6 May 2018 to add carbon canister plumbing as a common leak area.

There is no easy way to find vacuum leaks. It is a time consuming job that requires close inspection of each and every hose and connection.

Small vacuum leaks may not show much change using a vacuum gauge. The range of "good readings" varies so much from engine to engine that it may be difficult to detect small leaks. The engine in my first Mustang pulled about 16.5" of vacuum at 650-725 RPM, which I consider rather low. It was a mass market remanufactured rebuild, so no telling what kind of camshaft it had. Average readings seem to run 16"-18" inches at idle and 18"-21" at 1000 RPM. The only sure comparison is a reading taken when your car was performing at its best through all the RPM ranges and what it is doing now. Use one of the spare ports on the vacuum tree that is mounted on the firewall near the windshield wiper motor.

Use a squirt can of motor oil to squirt around the mating surfaces of the manifold & TB. The oil will be sucked into the leaking area and the engine will change speed. Avoid using flammable substitutes for the oil such as starting fluid, propane or throttle body cleaner. Fire is an excellent hair removal agent, and no eyebrows is not cool...

After you have done the simple visual checks and the check for vacuum leak on the underside of the intake manifold, consider doing a smoke test.
Some of the guys here have built smoke machines used to find automotive vacuum leaks. They seem to work quite well and are made mostly with parts you would have laying around in your garage. Check out smoke machine vacuum leak - YouTube and see if there is one that you could build.

The vacuum line plumbing is old and brittle on many of these cars, so replacing the lines with new hose is a good plan. The common 1/8” and ¼” vacuum hose works well and isn’t expensive.

The PCV grommet and the power brake booster check valve grommet are two places that often get overlooked when checking for vacuum leaks. The rubber grommets get hard and lose their ability to seal properly. The PVC grommet is difficult to see if it is correctly seated and fitting snugly.

The hoses and connections for the evaporative emissions (carbon canister and purge valve) are other common sources of vacuum leaks. The large vacuum outlets on the bottom side of the upper intake manifold are common hiding places for deteriorated vacuum lines and caps over unused vacuum ports.

Fuel injector O rings can get old and hard. When they do, they are prone to leaking once the engine warms up. This can be difficult to troubleshoot, since it is almost impossible to get to the injectors to squirt oil into the fuel injector mounting bosses. If the plastic caps on the fuel injectors (pintle caps) are missing, the O rings will slide off the injectors and fall into the intake manifold.

Fuel injector seal kits with 2 O rings and a pintle cap (Borg-Warner P/N 274081) are available at Pep Boys auto parts. Cost is about $3-$4 per kit. The following are listed at the Borg-Warner site ( http://www.borg-warner.com ) as being resellers of Borg-Warner parts:
http://www.partsplus.com/ or http://www.autovalue.com/ or http://www.pepboys.com/ or http://www.federatedautoparts.com/

Most of the links above have store locators for find a store in your area.

Use motor oil on the O rings when you re-assemble them & everything will slide into place. The gasoline will wash away any excess oil that gets in the wrong places and it will burn up in the combustion chamber. Heat the pintle caps in boiling water to soften them to make them easier to install.



Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds
mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg



Vacuum leak due to slipped lower intake manifold gasket...

Ask Nicoleb3x3 about the intake gasket that slipped out of place and caused idle and vacuum leak problems that could not be seen or found by external examination. I don't care what you spray with, you won't find the leak when it is sucking air from the lifter valley. It simply isn't possible to spray anything in there with the lower manifold bolted in place.

photodisplay.jpg




Determining if you have a leak due to a slipped intake gasket as shown above. This test is only good if you can get the engine to run somewhere in the 1000-1700 RPM range
If your valve cover oil filler & PVC systems are still in the original configuration, try this:
Cap or plug the hose from the intake manifold to the PVC valve with a bolt.
Cap or plug the PVC valve with a piece of hose with a plug or bolt in it.
At that point the only vent for the crankcase is the tube from the oil filler neck to the throttle body.

Disconnect the tube that runs from the oil filler neck to the throttle body. Make sure the oil filler cap is on securely. Start the engine and put your thumb over the end of the tube that comes from the oil filler cap. If you feel suction, there is a leak. Another thing to do is to extend the tubing from the filler neck so that there is enough to stick the end in a jar or cup filled with motor oil. If it sucks up the oil, you definitely have a leak at the underside of intake manifold.

This isn't necessarily the definitive test, but it is the best thing I could come up with on short notice. If there is a lot of blowby, this obviously won't be of much help.

See the picture below to see the breather tube where in connects to the throttle body. It is close to the TPS and runs over the top of the IAC.

The following are diagrams courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

TPS_IAB_Pic.jpg


See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/ Everyone should bookmark this site.

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg

HVAC vacuum diagram
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang_AC_heat_vacuum_controls.gif

TFI module differences & pinout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/TFI_5.0_comparison.gif

Fuse box layout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/MustangFuseBox.gif
 
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I tried your slipped intake gasket test. I felt some suction but not a lot. Is it supposed to be very noticeable?
If you felt suction, you have a problem. Remove the lower intake manifold and replace the gasket.

Intake manifold removal and replacement.

Revised 8 Jul 2017 to add diagrams and bolt torque information

Here's some help...

Vacuum line connections:
One large vacuum line from the upper front goes to the carbon canister

One large vacuum line from the rear goes to the vacuum tree.

One small line in the front feeds the Smog pump solenoid control valves on the rear of the passenger side wheel well..

One small line in the rear goes to the fuel pressure regulator.

One small line in the rear goes to the EGR suction regulator.

One large line in the rear goes to the PVC valve.

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds - Typical Vacuum Routing for a Fox stang 5.0:
mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg


Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds - Intake manifold bolt tightening sequence for a 5.0 Fox stang:
FordIntakeTorqueSequence.gif


Intake manifold to head bolts
--Step 1 96 in/lbs
--Step 2 16ft/lbs
--Step 3 23-25 ft/lbs

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/

Here's some tips...

Tools: a good torque wrench is a must have item. A razor blade scraper that holds a single edge razor blade from Home Depot or Ace hardware is another handy thing. Get a Chilton or Haynes shop manual - you'll need it for the bolt torques and patterns. The intake manifold has an especially odd pattern. You'll need access to a timing light to set the timing after you re-stab the distributor. Look in the A/C repair section for the fuel line tools. They look like little plastic top hats. You will need the 1/2" & 5/8" ones. The hat shaped section goes on facing the large part of the coupling. Then you press hard on the brim until it forces the sleeve into the coupling and releases the spring. You may need someone to pull on the line while you press on the coupling. Put some motor oil on them when you put the line back together.

The A/C Compressor comes off with lines still connected. Mark all the electrical, smog and vacuum lines with tags to help you remember where to re-connect them. If you have a digital camera, take several pictures.

Whatever you do, don't skimp on cleaning the gasket surfaces. New gaskets need to seat against bare metal and not the residue left from the old gaskets in order to seal leak free. This is the most time consuming and tiresome part of the job. When all the surfaces are free of dark specks and are smooth enough that when you run your fingernail over the surface, you don't feel any raised places, then it is clean enough.

Put some cardboard in the lifter valley to help catch the gasket scrapings. Have a shop vacuum handy to suck up the scrapings and any coolant that leaked into the lifter valley.

Look for little things that need to be replaced like the short hose from the thermostat hosing to the water pump, damaged vacuum lines and hose clamps that are rusted or broken.

Plan on cutting the thermostat to water pump hose, or removing the thermostat housing. Also plan on removing the distributor to get clearance to remove the intake manifold. Remove #1 spark plug, stick your finger in the spark plug hole and crank. When your finger gets air moving past it, stop cranking. Turn the engine until the timing marks line up with the pointer. Now you can pull the distributor out. Be sure to put a rag or cap in the block where you removed the distributor. It will save you trouble if something falls into the empty distributor hole.


My favorite trick that saves time and effort is the stay in place gasket. Be sure that you scrape (don't use a wire brush) all the old gasket material off, then clean all the surfaces with acetone or MEK.

When the surfaces are clean, use weather strip adhesive on the head to manifold surface. Also use the weather strip adhesive on the side of the gasket that mates to the head. When you are done, the head surface and the gasket surface that mate together will have weather strip adhesive on them. Follow the instructions on the tube or can and when it gets tacky, press the gasket down on the head.

Clean the area where the rubber rails mount to the block in front and in the rear with more acetone or MEK and do the same trick with the weather strip adhesive that you did to the heads.

Coat the rubber seals and the gasket area around the water passages with lots of Blue Silicone gasket sealer and put it together. TADA! no leaks, and no gaskets that shifted out of place.

Fuel injector seal kits with 2 O rings and a pintle cap (Borg-Warner P/N 274081) are available at Pep Boys auto parts. Cost is about $3-$4 per kit. The following are listed at the Borg-Warner site ( http://www.borg-warner.com ) as being resellers of Borg-Warner parts:

http://www.partsplus.com/ or http://www.autovalue.com/ or http://www.pepboys.com/ or http://www.federatedautoparts.com/

Most of the links above have store locators for find a store in your area.

Putting the distributor back in and setting the timing.

Revised 15-Apr-2016 to add fix for TFI hitting the thermostat housing while trying to set the base timing at 14°.

You can forget about anything beyond this point if you don't have access to a timing light. You will never get the timing set right without one.

Note: If you don't have access to a timing light, most of the larger auto parts stores will rent or loan one if you have a credit card or leave a cash deposit.


Putting the distributor back in is fairly simple. Pull #1 sparkplug, put your finger in the sparkplug hole, crank the engine until you feel compression. Then line up the TDC mark on the balancer with the pointer on the engine block.

The distributor starts out with the #1 plug wire lined up at about 12:00 with you facing it. Align the rotor to about 11:00, since it will turn clockwise as it slides into place.

Align the distributor rotor up with the #1 position marked on the cap, slide the distributor down into the block, (you may have to wiggle the rotor slightly to get the gear to engage) and then note where the rotor is pointing.
If it still lines up with #1 position on the cap, install the clamp and bolt. If not, pull it out and turn 1 tooth forwards or backwards and try again. Put the #1 spark plug back in and tighten it down, put the clamp on the distributor, but don't tighten it too much, as you will have to move the distributor to set the timing. Note that there is no such thing as one tooth off on a 5.0 Mustang if you follow the spark plug wire order on the distributor cap. If it doesn't align perfectly with #1 position, you can turn the distributor until it does. The only problem is that if you are too far one way or the other, you can't turn the distributor enough to get the 10-14 degree optimum timing range. If the TFI prevents the distributor from being turned enough to get 14°, there is a simple fix. Pull the distributor out and turn the rotor 1 tooth counterclockwise Don't move the wires from the positions shown on the cap on fuel injected engines!!!! The #1 position cast into the cap MUST have the spark plug wire for #1 cylinder in it. Do it differently and the timing for the fuel injectors will be off. The computer uses the PIP sensor to time injector operation by sensing the wide slot in the PIP sensor shutter wheel. If the injector timing of #1 and the firing of #1 do not occur at the right time, the injector timing for all other cylinders will be affected.

Setting the timing:
Paint the mark on the harmonic balancer with paint -choose 10 degrees BTC or 14 degrees BTC or something else if you have NO2 or other power adder. I try to paint TDC red, 10 degrees BTC white and 14 degrees BTC blue.

10 degrees BTC is towards the drivers side marks.

Note: setting the timing beyond the 10 degree mark will give you a little more low speed acceleration. BUT you will need to run 93 octane to avoid pinging and engine damage. Pinging is very hard to hear at full throttle, so it could be present and you would not hear it.

Simplified diagram of what it looks like. Not all the marks are shown for ease of viewing.

ATC ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '!' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' BTC
---------------- > Direction of Rotation as viewed standing in front of the engine.

The ' is 2 degrees.
The ! is TDC
The ' is 10 degrees BTC
Set the timing 5 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 5 marks towards the driver's side to get 10 degrees.

To get 14 degrees, set it 7 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 7 marks towards the driver's side to get 14 degrees.

The paint marks you make are your friends if you do it correctly. They are much easier to see than the marks machined into the harmonic balancer hub.

At this point hook up all the wires, get out the timing light. Connect timing light up to battery & #1 spark plug. Then start the engine.

Remove the SPOUT connector (do a search if you want a picture of the SPOUT connector) It is the 2 pin rectangular plug on the distributor wiring harness. Only the EFI Mustang engines have a SPOUT. If yours is not EFI, check for a SPOUT: if you don’t find one, skip any instructions regarding the SPOUT
Warning: there are only two places the SPOUT should be when you time the engine. The first place is in your pocket while you are setting the timing and the second is back in the harness when you finish. The little bugger is too easy to lose and too hard to find a replacement.

Start engine, loosen distributor hold down with a 1/2" universal socket. Shine the timing light on the marks and turn the distributor until the mark lines up with the edge of the timing pointer. Tighten down the distributor hold down bolt, Replace the SPOUT connector and you are done.

The HO firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.
Non HO firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8

attachments\51122


Use motor oil on the O rings when you re-assemble them & everything will slide into place. The gasoline will wash away any excess oil that gets in the wrong places and it will burn up in the combustion chamber. Heat the pintle caps in boiling water to soften them to make them easier to install.

Plan on doing an oil change within 2 hours of run time on the engine. This will get the debris and coolant out of the oil pan.

Consumable items:
Upper manifold gasket
Fel Pro 1250 or equal lower manifold gasket set.
Short formed hose between thermostat hosing and intake manifold
6 ft 7/64" or 1/8" vacuum hose
2 ft 1/2" heater hose
1 1/2 ft 5/8" heater hose
Blue Silicone sealer
ARP antiseize or equal for the bolts
4 each 3/4" hose clamps (spare item in case the old ones are bad)
4 each 1/2" hose clamps (spare item)

What can happen if you don’t use the stay in place gasket…

Ask Nicoleb3x3 about the intake gasket that slipped out of place and caused idle and vacuum leak problems that could not be seen or found by external examination. Spay everything with anything you have, and you won't find the leak...
photodisplay.jpg
 
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Sorry this is a long one. Ok I’ve been dealing with misfire/intake popping on my 93 mustang for almost a year now and I think I’ve finally narrowed the issue down. I was finally able to put a vacuum gauge on the car. It only reads 6 inches at idle. The engine is a 302 with afr 165 heads and Comp Cams NX274hr cam. I talked to Comp Cams and they said I should be around 12 to 15 inches with this cam. Engine codes for the car show 41/91. Please believe me when I say I’ve been down the 41/91 diagnosing. I’ve replaced the o2 sensors (they were actually bad).

I also replaced a weak fuel pump and a bad a FPR that would not hold fuel pressure. I verified the orange ground fire is attached to the intake manifold. Here is the tricky part, for the most part she holds steady vacuum at 6 inches but occasionally the vac will drift up to 10 to 12 inches and the idle will rise from the normal 800 rpm to 1100 rpm and hold. When this happens the car drives great. No misses, no pops or anything but when the idle lowers to the normal 800 rpm, the problems resurface. The problems (intake popping/misfires) only occurs in drive when increasing load. It revs fine in neutral and does not pop. I’ve tried to close the TB outlet and close the PCV vac hose to try the get the car to stall but it remains running.

Am I 100% on intake gaskets guys? When I spray water, brake cleaner around the lower there is no change in idle. I guess the leak must be somewhere between the runners. When the problems started I did notice my coolant levels were dropping slowly, so I re-torqued the lower because I noticed some of the bolts were loose and the leakage stopped but the gaskets but must have already been compromised at that point. I even pulled and re-dropped the distributor at its set exactly at 10 degrees BTDC. Could I have valve(s) leakage or stuck open? Any suggestions will be appreciated.
did you ever figure out what was causing this?
I am also dealing with random spurts of popping and extreme loss of power under load, revs fine in neutral
was it the lower intake gasket?
 
did you ever figure out what was causing this?
I am also dealing with random spurts of popping and extreme loss of power under load, revs fine in neutral
was it the lower intake gasket?
Unfortunately we sometimes don't get a resolution for problems posted, I feel most times the op finds they have found that a simple fix or they overlooked something simple.
This is 3 years old, I would post up your symptoms in a tech thread for suggestions or do a search matching your symptoms.
 
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