A PERFORMANCE sacrilegious swap

steel1212 · Jan 21, 2006

If you want to put a chevy engine in your mustang go ahead. Don't ask if it will work...with a torch anything will fit. I go to the louisville pre 50 show every year and everytime I see a ford and look under the hood and see "powered by vette" or the dissy in the back it just makes me sick. These guys spend 10s of thousands to make their cars "unique" and don't have a enough to make a blown 351 instead of a 351? I'm not against someobody dropping one into THEIR car but realistically why?

rbohm · Jan 21, 2006

while putting a late model chevy LS motor in a ford might seem like a good swap, the problem you run into is that die hard chevy guys dont like it cause the body is a ford, and the die hard ford guys dont like it cause the engine is a chevy. if you are of a mind to, you can put just about any motor into just about any car. i have actually seen a 455 olds swapped into a honda 600 coupe. the car had to have wheelie bars on the street(too much power), had no rear suspension(9" rear center section with the housing ends welded on, and no axle tubes). if you want to swap an LS motor into an early mustang, be my guest. its your car, your money, you build it like you want. you can even ask for help on ford forums, just dont expect an answer, and dont expect to not be ridiculed.

oh and just because an engine is lighter, doent always make it better.

bnickel · Jan 21, 2006

i would love to put an LS2 in a 57 chevy bel air, but not a stang. the lsx engines are awesome powerplants but i've never been much on disimilar engine/car make swaps. i don't even like 32 fords with small chevy's. maybe a hemi but no SBC's.

DJE55 · Jan 21, 2006

What are you wanting to do with the car? It's your car do with it what you want. God forbid you ever have to sell it with a GM motor in it. I've seen that before and you're better off pulling the motor and selling it as a roller. I have buddies running on the street with 331ci turbo's (1000hp motors) and I don't know too many LS1's in my area that can touch them. Save your money and buy the Ford motor, otherwise sell your Mustang and buy a Camaro.

mtbdoc · Jan 21, 2006

Actually:
LS2 crate complete <$5000
LS7 <$13,000

As far as manageable power, my GTO has ~480 rwhp @ 7psi and we'll adjust boost/tune for ~550-600 rwhp with the boost controller. Car is my daily driver. Yeah, I don't use all of that power very often, but it is fun!

My 66 'vert [which I've posted pics of our work to allow 17" x 11" rear wheels under the stock sheetmetal] should have at least 500 rwhp w/ 331 forged stroker [sportsman block] w/ AFR's, plenty of cam, KB blower pullied @ 12psi. But that will be a weekend cruiser, occasional run down the strip sort of car. Vert will never handle without a full cage, and that is NOT in the plans.

The 2+2 [if I build the car rather than selling it and building a GTM kitcar] will have a full cage, road course suspension, and a LOT of horsepower. It would be street driven as well as driven at HPDE and open track events. A lighter engine up front makes a HUGE difference in these cars, as does moving them back and down as much as possible. Big block Mustangs do not handle, that's for sure.

I get such a kick out of the whole brand-loyalty thing. GM just never built a car I wanted until they imported the Holden, and it is truly a marvelous car. Think BMW M6 on a budget. Seeing the kind of horsepower that can be made out of the LSx engines at their light weight, using it elsewhere has intrigued me. As far as cost, 5.0's are MUCH CHEAPER to get parts for, trust me. Just check the price difference in cams between the two. All of the LSx people complain about the cost of parts. Good aftermarket heads are ~$2200+ for the LSx engines.

Honestly, I don't think I would actually do this, but it is something I have pondered...and still could justify this FAR easier than a 4 cylinder, Ford or otherwise. Glad that is makes sense to someone, but for me, these classic cars need MORE horsepower, not less...and more rubber, more suspension, more stereo, more seats...

One other thought: engine swaps between brands are a no-no. Good thing for the GM guys that Ford 9" swaps have apparently been approved by the CAPC [Committee for Automotive Political Correctness]!

mtbdoc · Jan 21, 2006

DJE55 said:
What are you wanting to do with the car? It's your car do with it what you want. God forbid you ever have to sell it with a GM motor in it. I've seen that before and you're better off pulling the motor and selling it as a roller. I have buddies running on the street with 331ci turbo's (1000hp motors) and I don't know too many LS1's in my area that can touch them. Save your money and buy the Ford motor, otherwise sell your Mustang and buy a Camaro.

I assume they are running Dart or World blocks with that much boost! The fun thing about boost is the daily drivability. I haven't changed any internals in my goat, and in rush hour I can stick it in 3rd gear, idle along, and ride the brake...it will just keep moving forward without any surging. The only problem is that when I clear traffic, the brief euphoria of boosted acceleration is going to get me in trouble one day!

DJE55 · Jan 21, 2006

I think both are. BTW, what's the best time you've ran in your GTO? What's done to the motor to give you 500rwhp?

degins · Jan 21, 2006

How about a new 5.4 32 Valve Triton production truck engine. They are available for about $2500 plus S&H. I don't know if it would fit. Since we are speaking the unspeakable, new 2001 GM 4.8L engines are available for $1200 + S&H. Honestly, I'm happy with my pultry 200 HP D code 289.

D.Hearne · Jan 21, 2006

I say go for it. ( OK I know some of you think I'm off my rocker now ) At least it doesn't LOOK like a Chevy motor. If you'll notice, it's got more in common with a Ford ( pushrod) motor than the Mod motors do.

latamud · Jan 21, 2006

I got burned on the mopar chat for talking about my Ford T-5 installed behind a 318 in my 65 Barracuda. I don't ask anymore, I just do.

StaffAmerica74 · Jan 22, 2006

I say go for it sounds like a cool ass swap... Im a big fan of putting the ls motors into rx7s.

mtbdoc · Jan 22, 2006

Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner!

D.Hearne, you are EXACTLY correct...every time I see a classic Mustang w/ a mod motor, I just shake my head. Now, don't get me wrong, I LOVED the Year One car at the 40th Anniversary show in Nashville...but in general, NO! They are bulky, heavy, and without boost, don't have low-end torque. It doesn't look like a Ford V8.

As for the question about my goat: boost! Running an STS rear mount turbo w/ intercooler. With the car at low boost (7psi) and NO TRACTION [lousy track condition, plus the IRS isn't made for straight line launching] it turned 12.3/119. This is a car with much added stereo and sound deadening, so it is heavy! Probably 3900# without driver. 60' times are slow. BUT: once it is rolling, it will swallow up the road. 3rd and 4th gear are a real rush, as I have never driven anything that went from 60-120 as fast. All that is needed is to complete the tune, so that I can flip the switch for the boost controller and see 12-14 psi! Turns out that the idiots at GM have the MAF zero out in the software FAR SOONER than it physically maxes...so there is now a fix in HPTuners to allow constructing a new table.

I just think about what a 2800# '65 would feel like with that sort of power. I DO like fast cars...and I love the style and 'feel' inside of the classics. As I have tried to think in an open-minded fashion, I realize that the engine is the LEAST particular part about these old cars, in terms of "feel".

And I am NOT saying I will actually do this, but had hoped to have an educated discussion, not simply an emotional exchange.

10secgoal · Jan 22, 2006

mtbdoc said:
D.Hearne, you are EXACTLY correct...every time I see a classic Mustang w/ a mod motor, I just shake my head. Now, don't get me wrong, I LOVED the Year One car at the show in 40th Anniversary show in Nashville...but in general, NO! They are bulky, heavy, and without boost, don't have low-end torque. It doesn't look like a Ford V8.

This is true.I have been thinky about the 4.6 swap lately. Would take a MII to do it. But those motors love boost !!! And a turbo on it ?! I wouldn't see it as worth it unless done with boost. Come on now doc, what did ya expect ? I wouldn't hate ya for it. I may put in a glide one day. A 4.6 is technologivcally advanced, and my not belong in a classic, but it is the right brand. It really doesn't matter dude. It's your car. Their are a ton of people as I am sure you are aware that still say rear mounts don't work. But hey, they don't have/get to drive ur goat.

bnickel · Jan 22, 2006

personally i think the LS series engines would have been the next logical progression of the small block ford since it has almost nothing in common with a small block chevy except bore spacing. personally i think ford should ditch the mod motors pushrods are where it's at for american muscle. overhead cams are for ferrari's and lotus'. i have to admit though that the 3-valve motor is much better in the low end grunt department than any of the other previous mod motors.

mustangman70 · Jan 22, 2006

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=28

Here ya go guys...... go to the hybrid section....theres alot of fox body swaps but im sure alot of info can be gained here

69Rcode_Mach1 · Jan 22, 2006

It's like being a whigger, white people hate you, and black people laugh at you.

mtbdoc · Jan 22, 2006

Yeah, I spend a bit of time on LS1Tech.com given my interest in the goat. I have done a search on the hybrid page for classic, vintage, etc...nothing!

As has been noted, they are FEROCIOUS when transplanted into an RX7!

And I DO agree that Ford should have developed this engine...it is NOT an SBC, that is for sure!

The mod motor has very stable bottom end and can handle a lot of boost. But I'd rather go the Dart/World products block. Think 460 SBF w/ turbo...

ashford · Jan 22, 2006

the only cross breeding of engines iv'e ever comtemplated doing was a 302 into a nissan pathfinder. reason being the nissan was cheap and the engine was blown. this would of made a great vehicle for pulling a 4 place sled trailer out west. but alas the 302 is just an inch too long

DJE55 · Jan 22, 2006

Yeah I guess you guys are right, Ford should ditch the mod motor for the older pushrod design. The Mustang brand is dieing with it's mod motor up against the Camaro's with the LS1's? Wait a minute their is no more Camaro's. The Mustang out sold every Camaro that they've had since the early 80's. Guys give me a break. The mod motor is kicking as and it's a good looking piece. Granted you have to have boost to it, but it's still a nice piece. That's a different topic all together though. Good luck with what ever you do. In the end it's your car and you have to live with it. I just think you selling the Ford motors a little short. The Mustangs have been pretty successful against the GM brand at the drags for a while. I do believe that they have had the Outlaw title three years in a row with a small block Ford turbo motor. I think you might be a little bias since you have the gto. Come out to drive my 4300lbs MB and you'll be wanting a Benz motor.

D.Hearne · Jan 22, 2006

DJE55 said:
Guys give me a break. The mod motor is kicking as and it's a good looking piece.

APPARENTLY, you haven't SEEN 3 valve Mod motor yet. I've got one in my 06 Stang, and grant you, it's a stellar performer ( completely stock too) and the car's looks are what sold me, plus it handles like it's on rails ( got me hooked there) but Ford BLEW IT, on the 3 valve Mod motor in the looks dept. The damned thing looks exactly like a Powerstroke Diesel It's like having an ugly kid, you want to hide them when company's over. Only reason I have to pop the hood is to show those who don't believe me, the ugly truth. I sure as hell ain't proud of it's looks.

A PERFORMANCE sacrilegious swap

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