AFR 165 or 185's

89_Cobra · May 13, 2004

I am buying afr 185, or 165 for my engine tune up. I'm going to add about 10 psi via a pro charger, with elbebrock rpm intake,and e-303 cam and 1.7s. Wondering whats gonna be the valve clearence issuses if any, and whats h.p gonna look like. Thanks for any help.

89_Cobra · May 13, 2004

DropTopR · May 14, 2004

Stock motor with 2.02 vales, more than likely p-t-v clearance problems. I ran AFR's with a B cam and 1.7's and had a slight clearance problem. Now, the E cam has less duration, so it may not be as bad, but I'd still hedge my bet and say it will. He 165's may be an easier install, but the 185's with a blower will be awesome. My honest opinion, I'd go 165 If it'll be any kind of daily driver. If not, and you're willing to rebuild it for proper piston to valve clearance, then go 185's.

Rick 91GT · May 14, 2004

Put some new pistons in the motor, go with the 58cc AFR 185's, add the boost and watch it fly!

Looks like you have a few months left to get it all done....

stangbear427 · May 14, 2004

Ditto. Only I'd suggest ordering it with the larger combustion chamber if 10psi of boost is going on it. The 58cc ones make mondo compression, not very boost friendly.

Michael Yount · May 14, 2004

You'll have to measure as others have alluded to -- p to v will likely be an issue with the bigger valves (185's) and cams that have significantly more duration than stock. But every combo is different - what happens on someone elses is no substitute for measuring your own.

There are much better cams for your application, especially boosted, than the E cam - keep exploring that.

Rick 91GT · May 14, 2004

stangbear427 said:
Ditto. Only I'd suggest ordering it with the larger combustion chamber if 10psi of boost is going on it. The 58cc ones make mondo compression, not very boost friendly.

From a inside source I know the 58cc is much better with the blower...trust me. We just went through this on my dads 93 Cobra, with a YS-Trim.

cjman15 · May 14, 2004

smells like some burnt rubber to me

86Cobra · May 14, 2004

Michael Yount said:
There are much better cams for your application, especially boosted, than the E cam - keep exploring that.

Exactly. The E cam is a terrible choice for a blown motor.

Michael Yount · May 14, 2004

89 Cobra - If I were spending the money on parts that you are (supercharger and heads alone are $$$), it seems silly not to hook up with one of the custom cam designers and let them help you come up with a cam that does what you want it to. THe cam is the piece that's really gonna bring those components together. Getting high quality pieces like you're talking about and then putting an E cam in there is kind of like assembling the finest NASCAR team/equipement money can buy, and then hiring me to drive it. Hook up with Buddy Rawls or Ed Curtis - let them model your set up and help you come up with a cam that'll do what you want. It'll be the best extra $100 you spend on the car. I'm guessing you'll want something that minimizes overlap (you don't want boost blowing mixture right out the open exhaust valve when the intake starts to open) - probably a wider LSA, and plenty of lift to take advantage of those AFR's. It won't take a lot of duration to help things. It probably will also be exhaust biased to some degree - you're pumping air in under pressure, the cam can be designed to help get it out of the engine more efficiently. Go here to learn more about how cams do what they do.

Michael Yount · May 14, 2004

89 Cobra - If I were spending the money on parts that you are (supercharger and heads alone are $$$), it seems silly not to hook up with one of the custom cam designers and let them help you come up with a cam that does what you want it to. THe cam is the piece that's really gonna bring those components together. Getting high quality pieces like you're talking about and then putting an E cam in there is kind of like assembling the finest NASCAR team/equipement money can buy, and then hiring me to drive it. Hook up with Buddy Rawls or Ed Curtis - let them model your set up and help you come up with a cam that'll do what you want. It'll be the best extra $100 you spend on the car. I'm guessing you'll want something that minimizes overlap (you don't want boost blowing mixture right out the open exhaust valve when the intake starts to open) - probably a wider LSA, and plenty of lift to take advantage of those AFR's. It won't take a lot of duration to help things. It probably will also be exhaust biased to some degree - you're pumping air in under pressure, the cam can be designed to help get it out of the engine more efficiently. Go here to learn more about how cams do what they do.
http://www.wighat.com/fcr3/

Blue89gt · May 14, 2004

well how big a difference in streetability are we talking about here. i was thinking about running a 306 or 331 with 8.5:1 compression and the AFR 185's

not trying to chenge the subject here.

Rick 91GT · May 14, 2004

Blue89gt said:
well how big a difference in streetability are we talking about here. i was thinking about running a 306 or 331 with 8.5:1 compression and the AFR 185's

not trying to chenge the subject here.

no difference in streetability....with 8.5:1 I assume you plan for a blower or turbo

stangbear427 · May 14, 2004

8.5:1? Not with those heads. Even with the bigger 60cc combustion chamber you're still going to have to have some seriously dished pistons to get less than 10.5:1. Which leads me to

Rick 91GT said:
From a inside source I know the 58cc is much better with the blower...trust me. We just went through this on my dads 93 Cobra, with a YS-Trim.

Please explain. Conventional wisdom and years of experience have tought us that smaller combustion chambers make higher compression, and higher compression is more likely to cause problems (ie: detonation?) on a boosted engine. The more boost, the more likely a problem. Sure, they make more power, but bolting on two 250hp shots of nitrous would make more power too- that doesn't make it smart. I'm always ready to learn something unconventional though, what does your inside source know about this that they aren't sharing with the rest of the forced induction industry? I've spent the last three years talking to techs at every supercharger/turbocharger business out there planning my own project, and never once had one of them recommend the smaller c.chamber. I'm going to be bolting 15# of twin turbo onto a 427 stroker, so if there's something I need to know about this, please- tell me now!

slowjoe · May 14, 2004

185's with 60 pedestal or 61 stud mount rockers!

powershift351 · May 14, 2004

no brainer, 185's for sure

89_Cobra · May 14, 2004

Thanks for the help I've got 950 saved up now, in about a week I plan on getting the heads. Probally go 165's,since the motor was rebuilt before I bought it, and I don't know what was put back until I start disassembly. Only got 15,000 on it now and has the E-303 in it. Will the rpm be a good intake,intil I get the pro-charger. Car will probally be driven on weekends (Ranger is my daily driver). Sorry it took so lank to post had a B-Day party Killer hangover, then rode 4-Wheelers all day. Thank for any and all the help

stangbear427 · May 14, 2004

The RPM will be a great intake, especially with 165's. The 185's wouldn't be anything special right now, but once you put the Procharger on you'll wish you'd gotten them instead.

powershift351 · May 14, 2004

yep, I am getting the 205's very soon, with 42lb injectors, and about 10psi of boost

Blue89gt · May 15, 2004

your telling me i wont be able to find pistons that will be able to lower the compression to 8.5:1?.

AFR 165 or 185's

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