AFR 165's or 185's??

Mustang5L5 · Mar 31, 2008

I'm coming into a little bit of cash and want to get cracking on my 5.0 again. I need some engine mods. The stock E7's aren't gonna cut it anymore.

Anyway, i figure i have about $2K to spare for the moment. Maybe more later on.

So i want heads. I've always had a thing about AFR's. Now, for a decent street car, which is a better head to go with? I'm leaning 165's but would 185's require notching the pistons?

For a Cam, i was thinking TFS Stage 1 unless someone had a better suggestion.

I'm sticking with my Cobra Intake for now, eventually i'd get a Gt-40 upper, maybe port the lower and get a 70MM TB and EGR. I feel the intake may limit it, but i'm partial to the Ford style intakes UNLESS changing can gain me some big power gains.

Injectors will be the 24's i've had waiting to go on alone with finally doing my MAF conversion.

Then i'd have the typically pullies, e-fan, headers, off-road h-pipe and all that jazz.

Any thoughts?

HP estimates??

Mustang5L5 · Mar 31, 2008

Ok since i have stock pistons i guess i need to go 165 instead of 185.

black87ttop · Mar 31, 2008

yeah they 165's would be fine and give you great power for a 302, if you were stroking it, i would step up to the 185's

NKau · Mar 31, 2008

AFR 165's for a 302-306 c.i. based street motor hands down.

5spd GT · Mar 31, 2008

So I guess you are passing on the 4.6L DOHC idea?

Now, I agree, if you have stock pistons, go with the AFR 165cc cylinder heads.

Certain camshafts, namely custom cam grinders, can grind camshafts to clear.

This is something I do not like, unless it is temporary. The camshaft design, performance, and goals should not be restricted by a large valve radial like the AFR 185cc heads.

I am not saying the AFR 185cc cylinder heads are to big, but from the looks of it, your powerband will easily be fed by AFR 165cc heads.

Of course I have to suggest it, but how about going with Ed Curtis?

You can get the AFR 165cc heads with matching valvesprings and a custom camshaft to match your combination for under $2,000 direct from him. He sells everything to go with them.

You need to consider that you will need different pushrods, gaskets, and other little nic-naks.

Predict the typical 300 rwhp peak numbers. But your average power will be higher below the peak numbers, therefore you will be faster and have fun doing it.

As for the intake, sure there are better OOTB intakes, but you can send that Cobra intake to Tmoss for some work for a very good price which will free up some HP.

Mustang5L5 · Mar 31, 2008

5spd GT said:
So I guess you are passing on the 4.6L DOHC idea?

I'd love too but i don't have the room available for such a complex swap at this time.

Maybe someday, but for now i'll stick with a cheap 302-based motor.

I still want a 4.6L DOHC with 6-spd and IRS though.....one day

Foxfan88 · Mar 31, 2008

have you considered twisted wedges?

they are a 170cc intake runner and flow a tad better that the 165 AFR, and thats as cast out of the box, get them ported and they can flow some NICE air and support some good power.

the tw has 2.02/1.6 valves and with the canted valves and steeper valve angles you should easily be able to clear stock pistons with any common cam you would run in a 302.

if you want a bigger runner you could grab the CNC twisted wedges, you can get them in 185cc and will be able to clear the big valves.

the AFRs are super nice, i have checked them out before at trade shows etc but to me they seem maxed out as soon as you take them out of the box seeing how they are 100% CNC ported when you buy them.
to me the twisted wedges flow great out of the box and have room to grow. plus they are cheaper.

just some food for thought, i bought a set of TWs and am very impressed with the quality, the AFRs are a tad nicer but come with the bigger price tag.

GroverDill · Mar 31, 2008

Concur, take a look at the new TFS stuff. AFR does not heli-coil any of the threads = easy to strip.

grey5.0beast · Mar 31, 2008

I am about to be runningrolleyes: ) the patriot 185cc heads which are a copy of the afr 185s. I had to get my pistons notched(which is why I pulled the bottom end and rebuilt it while in there) but in the long run I don't have to worry about any cam or head combo now and my bottom end should last me another 150k miles at least!

5spd GT · Mar 31, 2008

You are only going to strip the threads if you over torque them. People make it sound like it is easy to do. I torqued into the old AFRs probably 5-7 different times without issue for various reasons.

Porting heads only is as good as the porter. A good porter cost $$$.

I am sure you guys realize that there is more to it than just flow.

A 185cc TW cost $1,850, which is $300 more than the AFR 185cc. They both are nice cylinder heads.

Ed Curtis used to sell Trickflow.

A big plus with AFR heads are a full CNC intake and exhaust port, with a CNC combustion chamber. The competitors in the price range only offer CNC combustion chambers.

Ask Ed about the lighter 8mm (.315") valves and 1.290" valve springs that now come with the AFR cylinder heads standard, as well.

Just more food for thought to add to the others thoughts...

GroverDill · Mar 31, 2008

I had the rocker threads pull out on my AFR 205's, so please dont tell me how it will happen, unless Rick Hawver doesn't know how to properly install rockers.

Note that quality control!
Brand new heads from the box onto my motor, AFR says the did NOT repair them prior to selling them.

SVT32VDOHC · Apr 1, 2008

You are right about needing a lot of room for a 4.6L swap. I have the whole backroom, and sometimes that isn't enough....hehe....it makes a mess.

NKau · Apr 1, 2008

GroverDill said:
Note that quality control!
Brand new heads from the box onto my motor, AFR says the did NOT repair them prior to selling them.

That would make me just a little bit angry. So all of their heads come with just one heli-coil for one rocker stud huh?

And people still make fun of me for buying edelbrocks.

5spd GT · Apr 1, 2008

Rick knows exactly what he is doing.

You would think one would want a little more thread in the stud-rocker holes, if possible.

I never let a couple isolated incidents stray me away from a cylinder head. For as popular as they are, how many cases can I come up with, with actual documented cases known to be AFR's fault? I can count them on one hand.

I hope everything worked out for the best, GroverDill.

AFR 165's or 185's??

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AFR 165's or 185's??

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