afr 185s
- Thread starter spade33
- Start date
Looks to me right there you stated the smaller valve would fit. Yet you don't know the cam, or cam timing.I just installed a cam I guarantee will smack stock pistons with a 1.90 valve. But I guess I could throw on a set of 165's because of the smaller valve, and it'll fit right ?
Do me a favor and just act like I don't exist. Keep your stupid little snide comments and bad tech to your self before you cost someone some serious money. Can't wait until the day someone comes on here saying they dropped a valve trying to rev a 302 to 7500 with a B cam and dropped a valve trying.Get your tach checked. There's some good sound advice for ya. I'm done wasting my time with you.
Still think you're a legend in your own mind, huh?
Why don't you try building something different as I did with a B cam and see for yourself? You sit there and claim you're some hot shot engine builder, but I've yet to see any of your creations either. One of these days your snide Kalifornia attitude will get you into trouble.
If someone DID drop a valve reving to 7500, it wouldn't be due to the cam profile of a B cam, but it would be engine assembly proceedures and parts combos that some one like you told em would work. And while you're busy putting down lesser cams like the B303, why don't you take a trip back about 40 years and see what Holman-Moody was doing with similar cam profiles ? I ran one of their cams in a 427 and it had no problem pullling to 7500.Yep, anyone who does it correctly with facts makes them a legend in their own mind. Awesome. My attitude hasn't ever gotten me into trouble with anyone. But there are plenty that don't like me. It's always the guys I raise the bull **** flags to.They get all butt sore about it, I'm the ***hole, and the legend in my own mind, but it's the other guy with delusional thoughts and fairy tales that is just confused. And anyone who doesn't believe them is a punk with an attitude problem. Your the guy everyone laughs at because of absurd stories and stretched truths. I might be the only to tell you, but a B cam and 7500 I guarantee has more than just me laughing at you. The Motorsport cams, E_B_F or X, none make power at that RPM. When you figure out there is a difference between making power at that level, and just spinning that high, your truck will become faster just on that alone. And then you can be a legend in your own mind,too.There is nothing wrong with the "lesser" b cam. I ran the F and the X. Funny neither went over 7k, and they are both bigger than the B. One nosed at 6400(X) and the other at 6k(F)I've got dyno graph to prove both, do you ? Like I said, get your tach checked. Holman-Moody, really ? Your going to compare a race team that has proven itself to win, compared to the impossibilities of someone just running their mouth on the internet ? Prove me wrong. Post up a vid of this miraculous once in a lifetime B cam, and I'll pay for the dyno if I'm wrong. Come on, this is fun. You haven't got a leg to stand on.
Really think a ranger with a 5.0 swap is different ? Worked on one of those on Sat. Try something else.
Really think a ranger with a 5.0 swap is different ? Worked on one of those on Sat. Try something else.
everybody laughs at DH? thats news to me because i dont laugh at him, and neither does historic mustang, and a number of other old timers on here. also it was YOU that mentioned turning a small block ford to 7500rpm NOT DH.
Ford Racing Camshafts: FMS-M-6250-B303 - AtechMotorsports.com
basic rpm range of a b303 cam is up to 6k rpms.
I have a b303 in a warmed over crate motor. Granted not near your power level, but mine def tops out at 6k, maybe a hair more... I still have to put it on a dyno.
I'm certainly not going to tell you what you built, and what you did not build, but I can offer up only my experience, and that is that the b303 is not the right camshaft to be revving to 7500 rpms.
You can build a motor to spin that high, but making power that high is different. That's outside the range of the b303 cam, and while I believe you spun that high, I have only my educated "doubts" that the motor made power that high.
I can spin my little 5.0 to maybe 6500, maybe a hair more, but it quits making power at 5800-6k.
I certainly believe you that it is "possible", however in your case, sadly it's one of those things that people will call you out on for a while...even if you are telling the truth. Jeremy
basic rpm range of a b303 cam is up to 6k rpms.
I have a b303 in a warmed over crate motor. Granted not near your power level, but mine def tops out at 6k, maybe a hair more... I still have to put it on a dyno.
I'm certainly not going to tell you what you built, and what you did not build, but I can offer up only my experience, and that is that the b303 is not the right camshaft to be revving to 7500 rpms.
You can build a motor to spin that high, but making power that high is different. That's outside the range of the b303 cam, and while I believe you spun that high, I have only my educated "doubts" that the motor made power that high.
I can spin my little 5.0 to maybe 6500, maybe a hair more, but it quits making power at 5800-6k.
I certainly believe you that it is "possible", however in your case, sadly it's one of those things that people will call you out on for a while...even if you are telling the truth. Jeremy
bikefreak600
Member
Your "single minded" approach to building an engine is what tells me you don't know squat. The cam profile alone isn't what limits power production and rpm potential. Take a stock 302 short block(with good rod bolts), bolt on a good set of heads (Canfields were my choice) Add 1.7 rockers, along with a Victor Jr, topped with a 650 Holley DP carb. Let me know what you find. You'll find that that the power doesn't come in till 3 grand and quits at around 7500.
And after you're done call Holman-Moody and ask them what the specs were on their mid 60's "Bonneville" cam for the 427. And how it performed.
You haven't seen the whole story. I brought it up, because he always says his engine with a B cam turns 7500. I'm the one saying spinning it high, doesn't mean it's making power.I know your a smart guy. And unsarcastically as I can type this, did you read all of my posts ? The man knows quite a bit, I don't deny that. But yes, every time he says that motor pulls to 7500, people laugh. Even if it's not the people you mentioned.By everyone, I am talking about when a group of cars guys is standing around telling stories. There is always a joker in the mist who has a anomaly for an engine. But apparently it now only pulls to "around 7500." But I raise the flag and I'm the bad guy. But I have the utmost respect for you, and a bunch of other guys here. Good knowledge base and pretty much a round about good guy.You don't have to rifle through your posts to find the truthful ones either.
DH said:
I don't care about H&M, we are talking about YOUR magical cam, not theirs.I may not know squat, but I know that a cam has a bigger role in RPM range than you do. Funny thing is, I crammed my engine with 14 psi, guess what ? RPM range didn't move 200 rpm, let alone 1500. Maybe your engine would start pulling before 3k if a: you had the correct intake on it or b: you got a tach that was correct. Would not be the first time I have seen a tach (autometer even) off 1500. My offer still stands. Shut me up with vid and I'll pay for it. Maybe I'll build the same engine above with stock cam. Should make power to 6500-7000 right ? The cam is only a small part of the limiting factor in the engine right ? Maybe we can put 1.8 rockers, or a super victor intake on it and get it to 8k ?
rock4451
20+ Year Stangneter 
bikefreak600
Member
Yea, you don't care about H/M's reputation.
That's because you're so full of yourself, it's like pulling teeth for you to believe anyone (especially dumb rednecks like me rlaugh
could ever best you. Well, let me tell you a secret, I've yet to see any of those hundreds of engines you claim to have built. And I've yet to hear anyone other than you talk about your reputation. Not even in San Diego. Yea, that's right, I've been there too. Got a son stationed at Pendleton whos' never heard of you either. And yea, you're right, that engine would have started pulling earlier had I put a different intake on it. No mystery there. A 5 year old that understands engines could tell you that. I put the Vic Jr on to try something different, I've since sold it and went back to dual planes only. An engine that's got a powerband in the 3000 to 7500 rpms range isn't much fun on the street, once you've made a few "freeway blast's" It's one of the reasons the Boss 302 wasn't repeated. As for your "blown" engine not doing more with 14 psi being stuffed into it, could be there was something else wrong with it other than the cam. Maybe you should have tried 1.9 rockers on it. 
Go ahead and build what I did, let us know the results. But remember, anything you post about it will be suspect, just due to you're insistence on protecting your precious reputation. And by the way, there were two tachs working in that truck, I guess you'll still insist both were wrong. You want the truth, YOU pay to find it. You're the one here who keeps insisting no one can do what you do with less. Nobody's ever said you were blowing smoke up our asses. 
If I told you, you wouldn't believe it. There are ways of doing things the cheap route and not having to spend $3000 on a short block. Will it hold up to sustained rpms and daily punishment? No. But it IS possible to build something like I did for less than $2000 (including the heads) It was a stock reman roller short block done by City Motor Supply in Dallas Tx. I replaced the rod bolts with ARP's and likewise the cam and timing set. It was dogged on daily to 6500 with ported E7's and an RPM intake for over a year. Then I replaced the top end with the Canfields and the Vic. Jr. After 4 months of flogging to 7500, it split the #4 cylinder wall, midway in the bore, and blew the head gasket. The hypereutectic pistons and rods went onto a new life in another motor afterward. The shortblock cost me $350 with a core exchange. Yea, I know it was cheap and probably wouldn't last long, but hey, what the hell, I could go get a fresh one and do it again and still spend less than I would at the local machineshop.
Frankies65
Founding Member
Not to be a smart ass (or a know it all) the AFR 165's will clear stock pistons with XE274H cam (.520/.523 lift). I know this to be tru because that is what I had until I changed the pistons out a couple of years ago.
I know this. there are lots of cams that will clear, and even with 2.02/1.60. Your cam timing is where it will fit, that's great. But if you tried a cam that hit with 2.02, shrinking the valve wouldn't really fix that problem. It just might clear, but still too close to be considered safe. It may run just fine, and you may never have a problem. But see, your getting caught up in lift. The number you need to be concerned with are the valves opening points in relation to crank. A cam that opens the intake 2 deg BTDC has a better chance of clearing the piston than one that opens 5 deg BTDC.
Care about it ? No, we weren't talking about them. We are talking about yours. You bring up my shop, do you see me bring up Boyd Coddington ? Or do you think Boyd would have cared for that matter, if your son didn't know who he was ? Stop living through someone else's build and pay attention. Your ADD is getting the best of you again. We aren't talking about what someone else did. I'm telling you what "I" have done, and offer proof. And you on the other hand up bring hot rod articles from the 60's. Just because both of your engines had "small cams" doesn't mean anything. Like saying just because you and Arnold Palmer are both white, you can golf. Why do you always refer to yourself as a dumb redneck ? Daddy issues ?D.Hearne said:
oh, oh no. I've been in business for 2 years and your sons never heard of me. You sure do like to make stuff up don't ya ? I give you quotes, or refer you to your own words, and you back it up by bringing up another company cam spec's, and some other stuff I apparently said ? Get your thoughts together and try something else. Focus. You keep going off on a tangent.D.Hearne said:
Here we go again. I never said there was a problem with it. It did just fine for a little 302. Lemme know when the truck of yours carries the wheels. I did it N/A as well. Point was I crammed it full of air, and the shift point didn't move 1500 rpm. Guy did it with 32 psi, same cam, same size engine, guess what ? 1100 rwhp, same rpm peak.Your basic understanding of engines is severely lackingD.Hearne said:
D.Hearne said:
Why would I feel the need to prove it ? It's your claim. It's your burden to prove it. I already know the truth and so does everyone else here. I said I would pay to find out. Dyno it or drop it. I don't believe your butt dyno. Problem is, it's you trying to safe face, which is why you won't dyno it. Your too far in to have video your wrong. I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong. Thing is I'm not persistent based on a hunch. Pretty sure physics are on my side here. So again, prove me wrong. If I told you red bull gave you wings, who do you think would be jumping off the bridge to prove it ?
D.Hearne said:
Again, please, show me where I said anything remotely like this.I sure do forget a lot of things I say, but you remember ? Blown65 has an N/A engine that does what mine does. He spins it to 8k, I spun to 6k. Different routes, he did it with less than I did, probably close to the same $$ though. He even questioned your B cam theory, so did another member a post or two down. I saw a video of his actually making power up high. But if you saw it, you probably thought he had the B cam with 1.8 rockers huh ?
Doing it for less does not mean two dyno pulls and blowing it up. This isn't a magazine article on how to build 500 hp from junkyard parts and a 6 pack. They don't show you the stuff blowing up 2 weeks after the article. Funny you always mention 7500, but this is the first time you mentioned grenading the thing.Most want an engine to last longer than 4 months. Even at 1k a pop. Glad no one has ever followed suit. You don't even have the intestinal fortitude to back up your crack pot stories.I'm arrogant, hundreds of engines, no one knows me, blah blah blah. I'm calling your bluff. Drop your drawers and show us what ya got, or better yet just zip it.
bikefreak600
Member
ok, 6500 with e7 is possible but i promise it was not making power, and with canfields 6500 is normal, no argument there. but 7500 is a different story, the only way it will produce power at that speed is with mechanical lifters and very high spring pressure. the hyd roller lifters you had will bleed oil at that high rpm. on the bottom end wont sustain 7500 even with main studs n main support. and you need to use 4 bolt mains also. not to mention the rods are the weakest point. and im sure those were stock as well. about your story, i dont doubt you were spinning engine that high, but im affaid all you were doing was over reving it, a dyno would agree.
my brother used to do the same thing, that rattling noise you hear at about 6000 rpm is spring failure. what happens is energy travels though the coil top to bottom and looses pressure on the valve. therefore the valve stays open. and afr's, canfield, edelbrock, all there springs for hyd rollers are only good til 6000-6500 rpm. in reality it does not matter what cam you were using its the fact that it was hydrolic cam n lifters, if you were using a solid roller n mechanical lifters i would belive you no matter what the lift and duration.
bikefreak600
Member
dude im dont want to get into a online pissing contest, im just trying to say it didnt turn 7500 with a hydrolic cam. call comp cams and ask them
to the thread starter sorry for the thread jacking
to the thread starter sorry for the thread jacking
No need for anybody to apologize for hijacking the thread. Both of these guys are people that i have a great deal of respect for, they both have given me great advice that i have used. D Heane seems to almost always seem to have an answer to my questions and has helped me many times. And ive been watching 10secgoal for a long time and watching his builds, he also has given me some good advice. I already got the answer to the questions that i needed and personally it is kinda entertaining to see all the arguing, as far as i am concerned its teaching me some things i might have never thought of. Personally I dont know enough to argue with either of you, all i know is even though i dont know eithe rof you i have alot of respect for what you both do, whether your a "red-neck" or a shop owner in cali. Id love to get a turbo system from 10secgoal some day and im sure id have questions that both he and D.hearne would help me with. Its all in the nature of stangnet. Isnt this what this is all for is learning and getting different opinions :SNSign: 
bikefreak600
Member
No need for anybody to apologize for hijacking the thread. Both of these guys are people that i have a great deal of respect for, they both have given me great advice that i have used. D Heane seems to almost always seem to have an answer to my questions and has helped me many times. And ive been watching 10secgoal for a long time and watching his builds, he also has given me some good advice. I already got the answer to the questions that i needed and personally it is kinda entertaining to see all the arguing, as far as i am concerned its teaching me some things i might have never thought of. Personally I dont know enough to argue with either of you, all i know is even though i dont know eithe rof you i have alot of respect for what you both do, whether your a "red-neck" or a shop owner in cali. Id love to get a turbo system from 10secgoal some day and im sure id have questions that both he and D.hearne would help me with. Its all in the nature of stangnet. Isnt this what this is all for is learning and getting different opinions :SNSign:
yea you are right there are opinions, facts, and physical capabilities of parts. but you will learn alot by reading this stuff, sometimes good advise is hard to find. so you are the real winner here
I didn't use Ford roller lifters. I swapped them out for a set of Comp Cam's O.E. style replacements. These DO rev to 7500, I'm using the same set in my 331 and it gets rev'd to 7000 at the strip. You do not need 4 bolt mains nor a main support in a stock block to rev to 7500. You would need either for sustained rpms up there. The stock C8OE rods weren't weak, the stock rod bolts were the weak link in those rods, that's why I changed em right off.
Boyd Coddington ? That blow hard ?
You seem to share personality traits with him, the way you put down what others have done. My point in bringing up Holman/Moody was their cam I used back in the 80's in a 427. But that went right over your head, didn't it ? That cam was a solid flat tappet with a lift of .515 and an advertised duration of 310. I don't recall the overlap and the duration @.050? I never found it. But many of the older cams like it when you convert the advertised durations to the @.050 specs are really shorter than you'd think. So point is the specs were pretty damned close to a B303 with 1.7 rockers. I got this cam with the 427 and only found the specs by accident. It was mentioned in a book that Hot Rod magazine published in 1966, there was a whole chapter on the 427 and another on the SOHC motor, along with every other engine of the period and what they were doing with each then. You want it proved, you're then the only one wants to know, so it's up to you to do it.(based on your attitude and sidestepping issues when you can't make a vaild arguement, you'd likely welsh on your bet anyway )So it's not on me, but on you, the blow hard expert. Otherwise, you can shut **** up. I don't have to prove anything to anyone like you. I can just picture you now, hanging out at the local burger barn (every night) with your little clique of freinds sucking up to you. Now THATS a funny picture. You want me to repeat it again? OK, send me $2500 and I'l build another. Otherwise, I sure as **** wouldn't trust you to reimburse me for an engine you wanted built. Here's the address to send the money to: David Hearne 372 Ft. Hamilton Dr. Opelousas La. 70570. I'll be waiting for your Money order. And I'll let everyone know when I receive it.
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