AFR ?

T

The Dan

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#1

• Mar 22, 2004

• #1

Since getting my FB dynoed on Sat., I've deceided that AFR's and a cam swap are my next additions. My question is, the AFR heads say they'll fit any year 289-302. Does this mean without modification? Are these really a plug and play bolt on for a 1965, 289 engine? I just want to know what I'm getting into. I don't want to drop $1500 on the heads, only to realize I need $1000 worth of more work and mods to make them work. Thanks.

 

allcarfan

The Answer Man

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#2

• Mar 22, 2004

• #2

Why are you dead set on AFRs? I assume you want 165s? I know where you can get some NICE twisted wedge heads that out flow AFR 185s for $1200...brand new...CNC ported.

I know that these heads bolt to a late model block without problems, however an early model block may need some machining of the water passages. does AFR make a head that will bolt directly to an early model block?

Shane

 

T

The Dan

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#3

• Mar 22, 2004

• #3

Yes, 165's are what I'm looking at.

Are you saying the Twisted Wedge Heads don't need any maching and the AFR's do on an early 289?

I'm not dead set on AFR's, but I haven't heard anything bad about them, and I've read a lot. Twisted Wedge, I haven't read much about, other than you don't need to fly cut the pistons, although, with AFR 165's I don't think the pistons need fly cut either?

BTW, where are the TW's for $1,200?

 

mustang70

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#4

• Mar 22, 2004

• #4

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=TFS-51400002. Less than $1200.

 

allcarfan

The Answer Man

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#5

• Mar 22, 2004

• #5

Im sure you can order early-model heads in either AFR or TW.

box stock TW heads can be had for under $1000. If you want CNC ported TW heads that are brand new...and flow some GREAT numbers for $1200...check out www.petersperformance.com. Tell pete that shane jackson recommended you.

I know where to get CNC stage I TW heads that flow the same numbers as Fox Lakes stage I for $1090 brand new....but thats a BIG BIG secret...teehee

 

Swede958

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#6

• Mar 22, 2004

• #6

If I'm not mistaken, AFRs were the top heads in the shootout in MM&FF or 5.0- the TF heads may flow better, but the AFRs outperformed them in both 165 and 185 categories. Now, if your talking about port and polish, do the same thing to a set of AFRs and I'm pretty sure they will still outflow the Trick Flows.

The Swede

 

T

The Dan

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#7

• Mar 22, 2004

• #7

The AFR's are getting a lot of press, and like I said earlier, it's all good. Not that I've heard anything bad about the TW's though. Just seems like the AFR's are really making a name for themselves.

 

M

mustangdave

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#8

• Mar 22, 2004

• #8

I have to agree with your choice of AFR's. The question you really have is: did Ford change the water passages that would cause a mismatch on the head gasket at any time from 64 1/2 to the late model 289/302 blocks. I would call AFR and ask but I think they stayed the same. You could also check part numbers on a web site to see if the same gasket will work on a 65 and an 85 for instance. Maybe someone will chime in with a definitive answer.

 

BAD67FUN

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#9

• Mar 22, 2004

• #9

I'd also like to chime in on the good news read regarding the AFR's. But what I'd like to add is the question of where is the line drawn between the 165 and the 185? I'm talking 289 here. What level of modification would you need to do to your engine where you'd be wanting the 185? I've seen advice in here that kind of follows this: Go with stock 165's for mostly stock engines with maybe headers, intake and carb upgrades. You can always port the 165's if you need more flow. The next step is stock 185's I'm guessing. But really, how many people (not me) want to screw around changing heads. I like to have a reasonable goal and do it right the first time.

So what do you people feel is minimal to warrant going with the 185?

My car does not have to conform to emissions anymore. Is there any reason at all to buy the head of theirs that is emissions legal?

 

T

The Dan

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#10

• Mar 22, 2004

• #10

From what I've read and seen, (flow wise), the 185's breath too deep for any little small block i.e. 289-302. To warrant the 185's it looks like a 351 is the entry level for 185's. The 165's seem to be capable of holding up to any 289-302 mods you can throw at them.

 

68GEETEE

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Nov 21, 2003

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#11

• Mar 22, 2004

• #11

The Dan said:

Since getting my FB dynoed on Sat., I've deceided that AFR's and a cam swap are my next additions. My question is, the AFR heads say they'll fit any year 289-302. Does this mean without modification? Are these really a plug and play bolt on for a 1965, 289 engine? I just want to know what I'm getting into. I don't want to drop $1500 on the heads, only to realize I need $1000 worth of more work and mods to make them work. Thanks.

Click to expand...

Could I ask what did your car do on the dyno. My Stang is similar to yours and I would like to have an idea to work from, thanks.

Dave

 

T

The Dan

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#12

• Mar 22, 2004

• #12

182 RWHP @ 4800rpm. Didn't get the torque read out.

 

brianj5600

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#13

• Mar 22, 2004

• #13

The 185's for my 351 were $1299.95 to my door from Mustangs Unlimited. 165's would be about the same. I think you will loose compression with AFR's or TW's, not good. I don't know the cc's on TW's, but I think they are 61ish, were you can get 58's from AFR. It would still blow away stock heads though.

 

Swede958

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Mar 23, 2004

#14

• Mar 23, 2004

• #14

185s like a lot of flow... most of the buildups I've seen have had at least a stroker motor beneath them, 331 or 347. though 347 has been the norm, a local shop just built a motor like I'm planning- 331, 185s, XE 284 cam ( they were fuellie). It ran about a 11.40 out of the box at the track in a fox. Should be good for 12.00s in my '70. I've also seen a stock bottom end 302 with 185s and a Kenne Bell- 505hp and 486ftlb at 3800rpm!!

For a stock motor or with light mods, go with the 165s- but if you build it up and go the whole nine yards- 185s

The swede

 

allcarfan

The Answer Man

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Mar 23, 2004

#15

• Mar 23, 2004

• #15

www.petersperformance.com

CLick on...service shop....scroll down. Some different proven AFR combos. Pete's a nice guy...also has some really competitive prices.

Shane

 

BAD67FUN

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#16

• Mar 23, 2004

• #16

So maybe the difference in whether to go 165 or 185 depends on whether you want to stoke it or not? 450+ HP? I could do a solid rebuild, .030 over, with nice new intake, carb, headers, good cam, etc... and still utilize the 165, and if need be port it. Which I think should be done to ANY head for optimal performance. I'll never add nitrous or a turbo. And I doubt a supercharger of some sort. So I should be just fine with a ported 165 all the way up to 400 HP? That sounds fair to me. And I'm sure if I did hit a pot of gold that engine package would be just fine with a supercharger added on.

Does this sound reasonable?

Swede958 said:

185s like a lot of flow... most of the buildups I've seen have had at least a stroker motor beneath them, 331 or 347. though 347 has been the norm, a local shop just built a motor like I'm planning- 331, 185s, XE 284 cam ( they were fuellie). It ran about a 11.40 out of the box at the track in a fox. Should be good for 12.00s in my '70. I've also seen a stock bottom end 302 with 185s and a Kenne Bell- 505hp and 486ftlb at 3800rpm!!

For a stock motor or with light mods, go with the 165s- but if you build it up and go the whole nine yards- 185s

The swede

Click to expand...

 

allcarfan

The Answer Man

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Mar 23, 2004

#17

• Mar 23, 2004

• #17

bad67fun....

Check out the site I posted for 400+ 302 combos with 165s and 185s

Shane

 

BAD67FUN

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#18

• Mar 23, 2004

• #18

I have a 289... should that matter?

allcarfan said:

bad67fun....

Check out the site I posted for 400+ 302 combos with 165s and 185s

Shane

Click to expand...

 

allcarfan

The Answer Man

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#19

• Mar 23, 2004

• #19

The BEST thing to do is CALL AirFlowResearch. I am sure they know more about their products, applications, and engine setups than any one of us here does.

 

jst6

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#20

• Mar 23, 2004

• #20

anytime you put in 2.02 and 1.60's you need fly cust pistons to allow for valve clearance on our littl 289's. TF allows a bigger cam than the AFR (AFR only allows a max of .550 lift) but the TF needs a bigger cam to keep up. meaning you will get a little more hp and tq from the AFR's but the AFR's will make their power with better idle lope. i've been playing with desktopDyno 2000 with these same combos (not taking in porting) by plugging in all the flow numbers on all the heads i can find. AFR appears the way to go and most likely the way i'll go when i get around to doing an engine build up.

my 2 pennies

ps peters perf does not list flow #'s for AFTER porting only for AS CAST.