Aftermarket Front suspension & steering

[jamison42166]

Im looking to install an aftermarket (Front) suspension in my early 65 coupe, I have looked at the Coilover suspensions from TCP http://totalcontrolproducts.com/download/datasheets/FCOC_DS_WEB.pdf
and Unique Performance http://www.mustangdepot.com/OnLineCatalog/Suspension/front-coilover-up.htm

Does anyone have either of these suspensions in their classic mustang? wondering which one is better. so far i am leaning towards the TCP.
I am also considering a Rack and pinion setup from randalls rack or TCP
if i do these conversions it will be either late fall or early winter.
My intended usage for the car is street use not racing, I want to improve steering feel and handling, even with the stock suspension rebuilt it floats all over the place and the steering feels weird going through corners
as far as the rear suspension goes i put new leaf springs in and will probably put in new shocks when i do the fronts.
any opionions on these aftermarket suspensions would greatly help..
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jamison42166/detail?.dir=9e20&.dnm=7c2cre2.jpg

 

[2bav8]

There really is no need for coilover suspension if all you want is a nice driving car.
Rack and pinon is nice if you go with power steering, but definitely isn't needed on a manual steering car.

Roller spring perches, strut rods with heim joints, roller idler arms go a long way to making a nice driving classic Mustang. Just my $.02

 

[70vert]

As one of the few Unique owners out there

I'm kind of obliged to reply. Reasons I went with their kit:

1. At the time, TCP was not available/on shaky ground.
2. They're not blue, so no repaint was needed
3. (this is important) they use the QA1 shock instead of the Aldan Eagle on the TCP - the QA1 is widely regarded to be a better coilover shock.

Things I didn't like about Unique:

1. The UCA knuckle is too big and my 17x8, 4.75"bs wheels ran into it.
2. Didn't ship with coilover adjustment tool
3. I have never seen a worse packing job on a $2k+ piece of equipment in my life. Hopefully they have improved this.

2bav8 is right, though. The only reasons I went with coilovers were:

1. All in one kit=relatively easy, not too much guesswork in putting parts together.
2. Ride height adjustment is easy.
3. Tubular arms weigh less. I am pretty sure this is correct. I am generally trying to put lighter stuff on the front end . . .

No big regrets though. They're a chunk of change but I would probably do it over again.

 

[stangonline]

Im kinda in the same boat. The TCP/UP stuff is pretty much the same. I an leaning towards Griggs (as long as they are still producing parts when I can afford them!). Look at it this way - if you get the UP setup for $2400, then the power rack and pinion setup for $2000 - you are at $4400. That suspension is using the stock pick-up points and geometry but is much stiffer and will give a more positive feel. The Griggs setup is about $2000 more than that but includes late model rack and pinion, steering shaft, bump steer kit, sealed hubs (so much better), fits tons of off-the-shelf late model wheels, flexible caliper selection. I'm leaving the best part out - race-bred SLA suspension. This is the real deal but it's no picnic to install - if you want strictly bolt-in, UP is nice - but if I had to settle, I would just do what these guys suggest - roller perches, shelby drop, heimed strut-rods and have a pretty nice driving car.
http://www.griggsracing.com/gallery/66street/page.html

 

[Psydwaze]

The TCP/UP stuff is pretty much the same. ...

Just to clarify, the UP stuff is a copy of an earlier version of the TCP coil-over. There are some distinct manufacturing, product feature, and geometry differences between the two.

TCP Coil-Over Technical Data Sheet 1.87MB

 

[Jimmys66]

I just did my front susp 2 weeks ago. I thought alot about doing a coilover. The car has always been a budget build. Spending $2500 on a coilover was going to be alot of money.

I decided against it and bought the best aftermarket stock style (Opentracker UCA and rollor perch, Global West LCA, progresive coils, S&T Strut rods and Edelbrock shocks) parts I could find. The car is just plain awesome for lack of a better word. It handels great, rides nice and I'm 100 pecent happy with it. I spent half the money of a coilover. The other half of the $2500 will go towards a cobra brake system.

I have not ridden in a coilover mustang and can't vouch for what it is like. If you have the money to spend, I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

 

[SoCalCruising]

Jimmys66 has a great setup for street and some track use. I would add that if your steering is bad, think about a Flaming River replacement steering box. There are some trick roller bearing pieces that you can add to the steering linkages to help with responsiveness. Cobra Automotive and probably others deal in these.

About the steering: I think everyone agrees that the racks increase your turning radius significantly. The FR box will not, and it is rollerized internally to improve feel and response.

 

[tamadrummer88]

If you just want a nice driving car with coilovers and rack and pinion at the same time, then you should try a Heidt's MII setup. Full crossmember with tubular A-arms, and power rack and pinion. Of course you would have to cut your shock towers, but with the shock towers gone, the possibilities of motors are endless! Ive seen pictures, and I have ordered one, and still waiting for it. Of course you would have to cut into the rails and weld in the crossmember. If you are unsure of what to do or how to do it, take the car to a pro and have them do it. but they will charge a lot just to weld it in. thats just my opinion.


John

 

[bnickel]

If you just want a nice driving car with coilovers and rack and pinion at the same time, then you should try a Heidt's MII setup. Full crossmember with tubular A-arms, and power rack and pinion. Of course you would have to cut your shock towers, but with the shock towers gone, the possibilities of motors are endless! Ive seen pictures, and I have ordered one, and still waiting for it. Of course you would have to cut into the rails and weld in the crossmember. If you are unsure of what to do or how to do it, take the car to a pro and have them do it. but they will charge a lot just to weld it in. thats just my opinion.


John

by the time is all said and done, paying someone else to do this job will be high dollar. 2000-2500 for the kit alone (options extra of course) and then most places will charge anywhere from 2000-3000 o install the kit. plus the entire front section of the car is severely compromised and will never be as strong as the stock front end with shock towers since the stock setup is triangulated to the firewall adn the shock towers are the main support for the entire front of the car.

 

[LUCAFU1]

its easy enough to do your self. i cut my strut towers out this past weekend. just need to get to grinding.

 

[stangonline]

Just to clarify, the UP stuff is a copy of an earlier version of the TCP coil-over. There are some distinct manufacturing, product feature, and geometry differences between the two.

TCP Coil-Over Technical Data Sheet 1.87MB

Are you saying that there is a more up to date version of the TCP stuff? And that the UP offering is a copy of their earlier setup?

Thanks
Jeff

 

[Psydwaze]

Maybe copy was the incorrect word to use. I'll say it was "modeled after" the TCP suspension system that was originally available on their vehicles. Within the last two years TCP/Chassisworks has made changes to the pivot assemblies and overall construction of the lower arm and strut rod as well as correcting the pivot location of the strut rod compared to our previous design.

 

[mdjay]

by the time is all said and done, paying someone else to do this job will be high dollar. 2000-2500 for the kit alone (options extra of course) and then most places will charge anywhere from 2000-3000 o install the kit. plus the entire front section of the car is severely compromised and will never be as strong as the stock front end with shock towers since the stock setup is triangulated to the firewall adn the shock towers are the main support for the entire front of the car.

While I agree with you most of the time, I have to say I disagree about the front being compromised. I'm speaking in terms of the Heidt's kit of course. Not sure about the others. This article I did shows the extra work done to beef up the front of the car. There not triangulation needed if your basically attaching it right to the frame. The stock towers need the support so they don't flex toward eachother. That can't occur with the shock supports welded right to the frame on the Heidt's kit.
http://www.mustangdepot.com/graphics/RoomforMore.pdf

If you're not on a budget and like the adjustability and ease of installation, the tubular coilover set-ups are pretty cool. Also TCP uses Varishocks in the new design, not Alden Eagle.

That being said, most of the other statements about the new roller products and modifications to the stock suspension are justifiable. There's many things you can do to make your car handle much better if you're on a budget.

70vert I'm feeling you on the spanner wrench. Just bought an adj one for $50. You would have to see the wrench to feel the pain.

 

[180 Out]

Just to clarify, the UP stuff is a copy of an earlier version of the TCP coil-over.

You mean to say Carroll Shelby is using a knockoff of somebody else's intellectual property on "his" GT500E? I thought that was against his religion.

 

[tamadrummer88]

While I agree with you most of the time, I have to say I disagree about the front being compromised. I'm speaking in terms of the Heidt's kit of course. Not sure about the others. This article I did shows the extra work done to beef up the front of the car. There not triangulation needed if your basically attaching it right to the frame. The stock towers need the support so they don't flex toward eachother. That can't occur with the shock supports welded right to the frame on the Heidt's kit.
http://www.mustangdepot.com/graphics/RoomforMore.pdf

If you're not on a budget and like the adjustability and ease of installation, the tubular coilover set-ups are pretty cool. Also TCP uses Varishocks in the new design, not Alden Eagle.

That being said, most of the other statements about the new roller products and modifications to the stock suspension are justifiable. There's many things you can do to make your car handle much better if you're on a budget.

70vert I'm feeling you on the spanner wrench. Just bought an adj one for $50. You would have to see the wrench to feel the pain.

I would not also see why it would compromise the integrity of the structure of the car. They also include boxing frames, which are pretty beefy, which is enough to strenghten the front frame to handle the suspension.



John

 

[fvike]

1. At the time, TCP was not available/on shaky ground.
2. They're not blue, so no repaint was needed
3. (this is important) they use the QA1 shock instead of the Aldan Eagle on the TCP - the QA1 is widely regarded to be a better coilover shock.

The TCP kit now comes with the VariShock shock. It's very good. The VariShock is double adjustable (compression and rebound), while the QA1 is single adjustable. (Edit: I see MDjay said that already. - I never read all the post before i reply )

I have instelled the newer version of the TCP front coil-over, and their power rack & pinion. The best "bang for the buck" modification was however the Subframe connectors. At $169 they are a no brainer.

I had the car at a open track event this weekend, and the Mustang is fantastic to drive. It's best described like driving a new car. It goes where I point it. No play whatsoever in the steeringwheel. I also can take corners sharper, and it leans into the turn, not lifting on the inside like it used to.

As for packaging, they came all the way to Norway, not a scratch on them. It was very professional.

 

[jamison42166]

The Heidt Mustang 2 Kit does look impressive to me.. but since it is a permanent modification i think ill skip it. more than likely i will do the TCP Kit.
Since i dont have the time to do all of that stuff during the winter, i will have my mechanic do it for me. he has 40 years of experience working on fords and mustangs (worked for the local ford dealer as a mechanic for 38yrs) He also lives a mile down the road from me. He went to work for himself after the ford dealer fired him for doing side work.

 

[bnickel]

While I agree with you most of the time, I have to say I disagree about the front being compromised. I'm speaking in terms of the Heidt's kit of course. Not sure about the others. This article I did shows the extra work done to beef up the front of the car. There not triangulation needed if your basically attaching it right to the frame. The stock towers need the support so they don't flex toward eachother. That can't occur with the shock supports welded right to the frame on the Heidt's kit.
http://www.mustangdepot.com/graphics/RoomforMore.pdf

If you're not on a budget and like the adjustability and ease of installation, the tubular coilover set-ups are pretty cool. Also TCP uses Varishocks in the new design, not Alden Eagle.

That being said, most of the other statements about the new roller products and modifications to the stock suspension are justifiable. There's many things you can do to make your car handle much better if you're on a budget.

70vert I'm feeling you on the spanner wrench. Just bought an adj one for $50. You would have to see the wrench to feel the pain.

i have ridden in a 68 coupe that had a MII conversion kit, don't think it was a heidts kit though, and it had cowl shudder as bad as any unibody convertible i have ever ridden in. the thin sheetmetal frame rails on a vintage mustang were never designed to hold up the entire structure of the car on their own and have a tendancy to flex when you a hit a bump or cross a railroad track. furthermore with the car on a lift you could see the gaps widening as the lift went up. this kit was also professionally installed.

 

[tamadrummer88]

i have ridden in a 68 coupe that had a MII conversion kit, don't think it was a heidts kit though, and it had cowl shudder as bad as any unibody convertible i have ever ridden in. the thin sheetmetal frame rails on a vintage mustang were never designed to hold up the entire structure of the car on their own and have a tendancy to flex when you a hit a bump or cross a railroad track. furthermore with the car on a lift you could see the gaps widening as the lift went up. this kit was also professionally installed.

Sorry to say this, but.......


If this is the case, then why did reen put one is his 100K+ shelby clone convertible? why arent you bashing him instead? is it because hes a pro, and he knows more than you? Then why bash other people when they dont agree with what you say? Its just an opinion, everybody is entitled to one. remember, Im not always right, your not always right.


John

 

[stangonline]

Lol - Don't try to convince him - he argued with me in another thread about Griggs being based on a fox body suspension - when I proved him wrong, he stopped posting

However, I do somewhat agree with him here - in the stock configuration, the show towers add some structural strength mainly because the shock mount is at the top of them. The fact that the MII setup has different mounting points make it less reliant on the shock towers. Two other points to make - strut tower braces are used because even WITH them, they flex - and remember, all unibody cars flex when getting jacked up/lifted - you can see the gaps on the doors change 1/8" in many cases.