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  • SN95 4.6L Mustang Tech

air conditioning / fuel consumption

  • Thread starter Thread starter Seraphitia102
  • Start date Start date Aug 16, 2006
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Seraphitia102

will post boobie pics for a supercharger
Oct 11, 2004
737
1
16
California
Aug 17, 2006
#21
  • Aug 17, 2006
  • #21
Susky said:
What if I put the top down and run the A/C on max?
Click to expand...

Sounds like you'll get the mileage of a 1,000 pound fat man sitting in your car making your engine tow that load
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,298
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Massachusetts
Aug 17, 2006
#22
  • Aug 17, 2006
  • #22
the98stang said:
WRONG

They proved on mythbusters that you get better mileage with the windows rolled DOWN versus using the AC.
Click to expand...



I think it really all depends on the vehicle.

Mythbusters isn't really using brand new high-tech vehicles in their comparision. They use whatever POS they find laying around.

Drag isn't the same for each vehicle as well. Windows up with the A/C on still in a C6 vette is a lot different than in a pick-up truck.
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,298
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Massachusetts
Aug 17, 2006
#23
  • Aug 17, 2006
  • #23
svttech76 said:
I am explaining how using max a/c setting on our cars switches to recirculated air, this allows the a/c system to cool already cooler interior air, this allows it to work less to keep the evap core temps at or near 40 degrees.
Click to expand...

True the A/C works less dropping the temp of cooler air, but no matter what temp the air is, the bottom line is the compressor is still on.

How efficient the A/C is at what settings and what temp air and humidity can be drawn out for pages. Her main question was is there a fuel difference between the fan on 2 vs on 4. In either position, the compressor is still engaged so fuel use is the same.

As far as i know, the only input in the Mustang's A/C system is a low pressure cutout switch. I'm not sure if there is a high-pressure switch. I don't beleive there is any other monitoring of the temp of the evaporator in the Mustang
 

Susky

New Member
Oct 5, 2005
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Mechanicsburg, PA
Aug 17, 2006
#24
  • Aug 17, 2006
  • #24
Seraphitia102 said:
Sounds like you'll get the mileage of a 1,000 pound fat man sitting in your car making your engine tow that load
Click to expand...

How'd you know how much I weigh?
 

Mike97gt

it doe snot
Founding Member
Jan 26, 1999
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89
the people's republic of massachusetts
Aug 17, 2006
#25
  • Aug 17, 2006
  • #25
the98stang said:
WRONG

They proved on mythbusters that you get better mileage with the windows rolled DOWN versus using the AC.
Click to expand...


really? I am going to have to see this mythbusters episode myself. when I have tested on cars at work using the WDS instant fuel mileage test I find I get slightly better mileage with the A/C on and windows up. The best possible mileage is A/C off and windows up..

Maybe on certain model cars the A/C compressor dogs the motor enough to cause you to be at a greater engine load with the windows up a/c on than with the windows down a/c off.
 

Cantslowdown

New Member
Jun 20, 2004
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Mt.Home AR!
Aug 17, 2006
#26
  • Aug 17, 2006
  • #26
Mike me and a tec did that in a truck mpg was better with windows up ac on..WDS dose not lie
 

Mike97gt

it doe snot
Founding Member
Jan 26, 1999
10,633
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89
the people's republic of massachusetts
Aug 17, 2006
#27
  • Aug 17, 2006
  • #27
Cantslowdown said:
Mike me and a tec did that in a truck mpg was better with windows up ac on..WDS dose not lie
Click to expand...


Yeah I agree. I have seen it myself. I have also used that WDS/IDS test to show customers how it's their crappy driving thats causing them to get 9 MPG on the highway on a car that I can show them I get 20 with..
 

jstreet0204

Active Member
Jun 26, 2003
939
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36
Winston Salem, NC
Aug 18, 2006
#28
  • Aug 18, 2006
  • #28
svttech76 said:
really? I am going to have to see this mythbusters episode myself. when I have tested on cars at work using the WDS instant fuel mileage test I find I get slightly better mileage with the A/C on and windows up. The best possible mileage is A/C off and windows up..

Maybe on certain model cars the A/C compressor dogs the motor enough to cause you to be at a greater engine load with the windows up a/c on than with the windows down a/c off.
Click to expand...


It depends on the car, they were using an expedition, probably a 4.6 which was probably already under powered for the weight of the car.
 

Seraphitia102

will post boobie pics for a supercharger
Oct 11, 2004
737
1
16
California
Aug 18, 2006
#29
  • Aug 18, 2006
  • #29
Mustang5L5 said:
True the A/C works less dropping the temp of cooler air, but no matter what temp the air is, the bottom line is the compressor is still on.

How efficient the A/C is at what settings and what temp air and humidity can be drawn out for pages. Her main question was is there a fuel difference between the fan on 2 vs on 4. In either position, the compressor is still engaged so fuel use is the same.

As far as i know, the only input in the Mustang's A/C system is a low pressure cutout switch. I'm not sure if there is a high-pressure switch. I don't beleive there is any other monitoring of the temp of the evaporator in the Mustang
Click to expand...

Thanks for answering my question in regards to fuel use Perhaps I should just leave my A/C setting on notch 3.

Does the electrical system have anything to do with A/C? Like will having 2 amplifiers hooked up affect my A/C and my car electronic's stability? I remember my old Toyota stalled when I had my stereo on (with 1 amp/no capacitor), A/C, windshield wipers going and headlights on.
 

Seraphitia102

will post boobie pics for a supercharger
Oct 11, 2004
737
1
16
California
Aug 18, 2006
#30
  • Aug 18, 2006
  • #30
Susky said:
How'd you know how much I weigh?
Click to expand...

I weigh about 112 pounds
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,298
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224
Massachusetts
Aug 18, 2006
#31
  • Aug 18, 2006
  • #31
Seraphitia102 said:
Thanks for answering my question in regards to fuel use Perhaps I should just leave my A/C setting on notch 3.

Does the electrical system have anything to do with A/C? Like will having 2 amplifiers hooked up affect my A/C and my car electronic's stability? I remember my old Toyota stalled when I had my stereo on (with 1 amp/no capacitor), A/C, windshield wipers going and headlights on.
Click to expand...



Well the biggest A/C electrical draw is the fan motor. The higher the setting the more juice it draws. The A/C also uses some power to engage the magnetic clutch.

Maybe you might want to think about a smaller supplimental battery along with the cap for the stereo if you are going to have that big of a system.

That's some car you are putting together there. Nice to see you doing it very tastefully as well.
 

CRZYHRSGT

New Member
Feb 14, 2004
240
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5.7 miles north of THE Ohio State University
Aug 18, 2006
#32
  • Aug 18, 2006
  • #32
The Mythbusters in question:

Windows down vs. air conditioning
"Urban puzzle": it is more efficient, on a hot day, to run with the A/C on and windows up than to run with windows down (b/c of increasing car's drag).

Computer-based mpg measurements:

11.7/11.8 with A/C on and windows up
11.7/11.8 with A/C off and windows up
11.3 with A/C off and windows down
So, according to the computer, it's better to use A/C with windows up.

This was too quick and easy for TV, so they decided to stage a seven hour marathon, race-til-you're-empty duel, with Jamie driving an SUV with A/C on and Adam driving an SUV with windows down. Though, once the safety inspector intervened, it was no longer a seven-hour marathon, it was a bit slower (45mph instead of 55mph), and a lot shorter (only 5 gallons each).

Jamie's A/C car ran out of gas first -- Adam's windows down SUV ran for another 30 laps -- completely contradicting the computer mpg estimate. Computer estimate based on air flow into the engine, so it would appear that it is unable to properly model the difference between A/C and windows down.
Click to expand...

These tests were done in equal Explorers with equal weight. Kinda surprised me...
 

Dusstbuster

I love meat more than anything! I just have a spec
May 31, 2004
1,462
33
64
Moorhead, Minnesota
Aug 18, 2006
#33
  • Aug 18, 2006
  • #33
Yeah it is because the computer measures your MPG at like optimal efficiency or something like that so it can't properly correct your mileage when AC is on vs when it isnt. The mythbusters show proved in an actual driving test with 2 similar vehicles (even though every vehicle will be slightly different no matter what year/make/model/plant it came from, in terms of fuel consumption, total resistance/drag, etc) that AC burns more fuel than windows down.

Now after watching MANY mythbusters episodes I can tell you that some of their methods of testing these myths are sketchy at best, you don't necessarily want to take this for 100% pure truth. I can tell from personal experience that I go through a LOT more gas when i use the AC regularly vs toughing it out and driving windows down though.
 

CRZYHRSGT

New Member
Feb 14, 2004
240
0
0
5.7 miles north of THE Ohio State University
Aug 18, 2006
#34
  • Aug 18, 2006
  • #34
Personally, I don't like my windows down 'cause I can't hear my exhaust as well.....that's worth the couple mpg I might loose
 

Seraphitia102

will post boobie pics for a supercharger
Oct 11, 2004
737
1
16
California
Aug 19, 2006
#35
  • Aug 19, 2006
  • #35
Mustang5L5 said:
Well the biggest A/C electrical draw is the fan motor. The higher the setting the more juice it draws. The A/C also uses some power to engage the magnetic clutch.

Maybe you might want to think about a smaller supplimental battery along with the cap for the stereo if you are going to have that big of a system.

That's some car you are putting together there. Nice to see you doing it very tastefully as well.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your compliments I'm planning on putting my 2 amplifiers on my Saleen rear seat delete that's coming soon with the capacitor in the middle kinda like a NOS bottle

View attachment 447190
 

Mike97gt

it doe snot
Founding Member
Jan 26, 1999
10,633
7
89
the people's republic of massachusetts
Aug 20, 2006
#36
  • Aug 20, 2006
  • #36
Dusstbuster said:
Yeah it is because the computer measures your MPG at like optimal efficiency or something like that so it can't properly correct your mileage when AC is on vs when it isnt. The mythbusters show proved in an actual driving test with 2 similar vehicles (even though every vehicle will be slightly different no matter what year/make/model/plant it came from, in terms of fuel consumption, total resistance/drag, etc) that AC burns more fuel than windows down.

Now after watching MANY mythbusters episodes I can tell you that some of their methods of testing these myths are sketchy at best, you don't necessarily want to take this for 100% pure truth. I can tell from personal experience that I go through a LOT more gas when i use the AC regularly vs toughing it out and driving windows down though.
Click to expand...


the WDS/IDS fuel economy test is calculated from how much fuel the injectors are injecting into the motor vs. the veicle speed the PCM sees.. It is HIGHLY accurate.. Ford has us use this test for veicle diagnostics.. I am not talking about the fuel meter on the dash.. I am talking about a scan tool test we have.

think about it. how can this test be innaccurate.. The PCM has to know EXACTLY what the injector flow rate is. It also has to know EXACTLY what the injector pulsewidth is.. and it HAS to know exactly what the veicle speed is, not only for engine management but for ABS and IVD operation..

This mythbusters computer simulation must have not been done using our scan tools. Our test is not innacurate if it was ford would have not included it in our diagnostic equipment. Inaccurate equipment costs them money in fasle warrenty repairs


And the what car ran out first test is not very accurate. the only way that could be accurate is if both trucks had the EXACT amount of fuel in the tank.. ( ford fuel guages read empty when there is 3-4 gallons in the tank, even if you run them out of gas you will see some fuel in the baffles, and on different cars even of the same model this amount of gas can differ)

you would have to install new fuel tanks and pumps in both trucks. This is the only way you can make sure they both have the same amount of fuel..

Plus if they had humans drive it this is even more innacurate. no two humans drive the same.. even with the cruise control on the way one guy turns compared to another can effect the mileage..

I really need to see this episode so I can see how they did it... one major thing I need to know is what method they used when they had the computer figure out the mileage.

BTW one last thing.. 45 MPH is too slow to test at.. nobody drives around the highway at 45 mph.. you need to run the tests at 65-75.. the wind resistance at those speeds is much greater than at 45.
 
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