aluminum driveshaft and flywheel

[tunedin302]

how much is a billet flywheel?

I got my Fidanza billet flywheel from D&D motorsports, about $200. I spoke to them about an aluminum setup on my street car and they heavy advised against it. Definately get an aluminum d/s if you plan to do gears.

 

[EMW150]

Really, it depends on the combo. I wouldn't put an alum. flywheel on a stock engine with stock gears but if you have a healthy engine with a decent set of gears they are very streetable. What's nice also is many of them have removable/replaceable friction surfaces. On a drag car, yes you don't have the inertia with an aluminum flywheel on launch that you'd see with a steel flywheel. The question is though, do you need additional inertia? Most street / strip cars benefit in the 60' with an aluminum flywheel because it takes some of the hit away from the tires. There's no sense in having additional inertia if you can't get it to the ground. I believe as far as rotating mass, the lighter the better in most cases.

 

[Joes95GT]

I know Joes95GT posted his heavy convertable was EASIER to accelerate from a stop after his aluminum flywheel swap. Hopefully he'll repond with some more REAL experience.

Sho nuff was.

The aluminum flywheel made my car rev faster, and easier to take off.

I'm not going to argue against what other people "say" - fact of the matter is this: I made the switch and noticed the gains.

My grandmother or my great uncle's, best friend's, girlfriend's, white trash hillbilly brother DID NOT make the switch.

I have real world experience....take it or leave it.

Joe

 

[tunedin302]

The aluminum flywheel made my car rev faster, and easier to take off.

I'm not going to argue against what other people "say" - fact of the matter is this: I made the switch and noticed the gains.

I have real world experience....take it or leave it.

Joe

Thanks for the reality and glad to see you enjoy it.

 

[Joes95GT]

Thanks for the reality and glad to see you enjoy it.

Joe

 

[Joes95GT]

Really, it depends on the combo. I wouldn't put an alum. flywheel on a stock engine with stock gears but if you have a healthy engine with a decent set of gears they are very streetable. What's nice also is many of them have removable/replaceable friction surfaces. On a drag car, yes you don't have the inertia with an aluminum flywheel on launch that you'd see with a steel flywheel. The question is though, do you need additional inertia? Most street / strip cars benefit in the 60' with an aluminum flywheel because it takes some of the hit away from the tires. There's no sense in having additional inertia if you can't get it to the ground. I believe as far as rotating mass, the lighter the better in most cases.

This is very good information. I couldn't have said it any better myself.

Joe

 

[BaXTeR3221]

what kind of flywheel should i get? cuz im tryin to squeeze maybe a high 13 out of my car for not mucn money,

If your looking to save money, there is no reason to get an aluminum flywheel. I would wait until you have done some other things first, ie suspension.

 

[5spd GT]

For me, that has only been a problem if I take more time to shift than a Civic getting to 60mph

I have a Fidanza alum flywheel and an aluminum balancer. It took a few miles (about 1 week) to get used to the new setup. It revs up really quick. But after that, it's like driving a stock setup.

Yeah nice to hear some experience...I knew (from what I have read and a couple buddies of mine) that you had to relearn it all. It changes up some things

Money is better spent elsewhere...

I think their is a reason why Ed Curtis and a couple others (Paul - aka killercanary) mentioned that getting an aluminum flywheel is not recommended. I would go ahead and PM him (Ed) and get the confirmation from him

To the original poster...your current powerlevel and your future power level (as a guess) will not need a AFW...keep a steel one. It will do very nicely for you and you won't ever have to doubt...

 

[5spd GT]

Really, it depends on the combo. I wouldn't put an alum. flywheel on a stock engine with stock gears but if you have a healthy engine with a decent set of gears they are very streetable. What's nice also is many of them have removable/replaceable friction surfaces. On a drag car, yes you don't have the inertia with an aluminum flywheel on launch that you'd see with a steel flywheel. The question is though, do you need additional inertia? Most street / strip cars benefit in the 60' with an aluminum flywheel because it takes some of the hit away from the tires. There's no sense in having additional inertia if you can't get it to the ground. I believe as far as rotating mass, the lighter the better in most cases.

Is it really ideal to have a flywheel where you need to keep removing the tranny/clutch assembly to replace those friction disc? I personally don't like that...I would rather set it then go when you are trying to avoid all the down time you can. The replaceable friction surfaces also cost money on top of the flywheel. It is like a continual interest on the flywheel. You have to keep paying to keep the grab/surface ideal. Not my cup of tea...

This isn't a drag car we are talking about...so no need to talk about inertia on the track solely. Many of us on here drive these cars regularly and many daily (as mine is) and we like good street manners...under normal take off conditions. Not 6k drops...and the revs "calm down" considerably quicker (noticeable) so when match revving you need to shift a bit quicker to avoid that engine braking sound

Sometimes it isn't all about the track...

And going bigger and badder than others doesn't mean it is correct...

 

[jmd2914]

i think im going to steer clear of the aluminum flywheel but get a driveshaft just to help with the vibrations. im just lookin for a somewhat inexpensive way to hopefully crack 13's like id be happy with a 13.9

 

[EMW150]

Is it really ideal to have a flywheel where you need to keep removing the tranny/clutch assembly to replace those friction disc? I personally don't like that...I would rather set it then go when you are trying to avoid all the down time you can. The replaceable friction surfaces also cost money on top of the flywheel. It is like a continual interest on the flywheel. You have to keep paying to keep the grab/surface ideal. Not my cup of tea...

This isn't a drag car we are talking about...so no need to talk about inertia on the track solely. Many of us on here drive these cars regularly and many daily (as mine is) and we like good street manners...under normal take off conditions. Not 6k drops...and the revs "calm down" considerably quicker (noticeable) so when match revving you need to shift a bit quicker to avoid that engine braking sound

Sometimes it isn't all about the track...

And going bigger and badder than others doesn't mean it is correct...

#1. I didn't say it was all about the track. I said it depended on the combo.

#2. My Spec aluminum flywheel has never had the insert replaced yet. I ran it for 3 years with the same Spec III disc and pressure plate before finally blowing the disc to pieces at the end of the year last year.

#3. I couldn't tell a difference at all on my car as far as streetablility. If you have a torquey street car with a decent set of gears your not going to see a big difference.

EDIT: The insert in the flywheels I run are replaceable. They are not friction. They are steel inserts where the clutch disc grips. Point is, you can replace the insert for a fraction of the cost and don't have to have it machined or replaced like a steel flywheel would.

 

[5spd GT]

1. I didn't say it was all about the track. I said it depended on the combo.

I know you didn't...but your example about inertia was on a track car and then a street/strip car. What about daily drivers...those in traffic all day long, etc.

#2. My Spec aluminum flywheel has never had the insert replaced yet. I ran it for 3 years with the same Spec III disc and pressure plate before finally blowing the disc to pieces at the end of the year last year.

It is only a matter of time either way...many go a long time without an oil change...but is is "safe" or reliable or getting the best efficiency performance?

#3. I couldn't tell a difference at all on my car as far as streetablility. If you have a torquey street car with a decent set of gears your not going to see a big difference.

No one has ever say you will see a "big difference"...but we are just posting some cons of it (pro being a bit quicker acceleration due to a couple factors). You noticed a difference either way...whether it bothered you or not. What is wrong with some posting some of the differences they might experience?

EDIT: The insert in the flywheels I run are replaceable. They are not friction. They are steel inserts where the clutch disc grips. Point is, you can replace the insert for a fraction of the cost and don't have to have it machined or replaced like a steel flywheel would.

Sure you can replace the inserts...but guess what is adds up. A resurfacing cost $25 bucks at my local machine shop. In my opinion on the steel inserts...it is like buying a nitrous kit...you still have to buy the nitrous...over and over and over...it may be a fraction of the cost...but you will see what adds up.

 

[Grn92LX]

Grn92Lx - When did you have a King Cobra clutch? Or are you talking about the pressure plate you had?

I had a king cobra when I did the tremec tko last summer. I just sold the KC last month. So from august until I pulled my motor out I had the KC clutch. Remember when I posted that d&d sent me the wrong clutch? I ordered the mcleod dual friction disk and they sent me a KC and I didn't realize. They sent me a brand new mcleod DF disk 2 months ago when I called to tell them my story. Awesome customer service IMO.

Just want to add one more benefit of an aluminum flywheel. Since its lighter its less weight hanging off the end of the crank and obviously less wear and tear on the rotating assembly. It is not a cost effective modifacation for the original poster unless he was planning on building a stroker down the road then it would be. They will be balanced to 0, 28 or 50oz with the change of a weight

 

[5spd GT]

I had a king cobra when I did the tremec tko last summer. I just sold the KC last month. So from august until I pulled my motor out I had the KC clutch. Remember when I posted that d&d sent me the wrong clutch? I ordered the mcleod dual friction disk and they sent me a KC and I didn't realize. They sent me a brand new mcleod DF disk 2 months ago when I called to tell them my story. Awesome customer service IMO.

Yeah I remember that very well...but in the post it appeared you were posting that you had the King Cobra clutch assembly. I knew you had the disk or whatever...

The previous owner of my car doesn't care to much for D&D...but hey we all call at different times of the day

 

[Grn92LX]

but in the post it appeared you were posting that you had the King Cobra clutch assembly.

I had the entire king cobra clutch kit. The same thing you had that you recently swapped out for the centerforce II. I will be buying a KC pressure plate from d&d probably this week.

 

[FastDriver]

For what it's worth, since I was brought up in this thread, I think that if you're looking for an advantage at the strip, your money would be better spent on something other than an Aluminum FW.

That said, if you get one, I don't think it will cause any problems with driveability. You may need to shift and clutch a little different.

What I would honestly love to see is a before/after dyno with no change other than going from a stock to aluminum flywheel. So far, I've only seen dynos of cars that have changed the FW in addition to other parts. How much power is the FW alone worth? I hate the seat of the pants crap that people spout off, because anything you invest in your car by putting on a new part, you want and expect there to be a gain - the placebo effect. Is it real? Will the car rev faster? Sure, it'll rev faster if the clutch is depressed or the tranny is in neutral. It won't rev any differently during acceleration, though. You're talking about a slight difference - a rotational weight measured in ounces versus weight of accelerating the entire car. The difference will be so slight that perceiving it can only be done with precise measuring equipment, and even then it will only be by tenths or hundredths of a second.

There is no reason that an aluminum flywheel would allow you to launch better than a steel one. It's all about momentum (m*v). You can create the same amount of shock to the rear tires by launching at a lower rpm with a higher mass. However, this also means that an aluminum flywheel can compensate at launch for the loss of its inertia by increasing its velocity. In other words, you should be able to launch just as hard with an aluminum flywheel as a heavier steel flywheel by launching at a higher rpm. This is true so long as you do not reach your vehicle's rpm limit with the aluminum FW.

The advantage with the aluminum FW remains only in less driveline power loss. i.e. the car should pull harder from a roll than one with a heavier steel flywheel.

Chris

 

[Grn92LX]

Chris, your theories are all fine and dandy, but how about reading what someone who actually HAS the part has to say. Just incase you missed it, here's what Joe has to say:

The aluminum flywheel made my car rev faster, and easier to take off.

I'm not going to argue against what other people "say" - fact of the matter is this: I made the switch and noticed the gains.

My grandmother or my great uncle's, best friend's, girlfriend's, white trash hillbilly brother DID NOT make the switch.

I have real world experience....take it or leave it.

Joe

Also, an aluminum flywheel is around 10lbs less than a steel flywheel. Not "ounces" like you said in your response. Like I said, its also less wear and tear on the rotating assembly. I'll be posting real world aluminum flywheel experience in a few weeks

 

[5spd GT]

I'll be posting real world aluminum flywheel experience in a few weeks

You changed to many things to accurately give info on just the AFW itself...to many changes...your whole rotating assembly is different as well

 

[FastDriver]

Chris, your theories are all fine and dandy, but how about reading what someone who actually HAS the part has to say. Just incase you missed it, here's what Joe has to say:

Mike, I don't know where your sudden pithy remarks to my posts are coming from, but because 1 person feels a difference doesn't mean that there is actually a pronounced one. And what's worse is that I've never claimed that there would be no difference - only that the difference would be small....that the money to improve performance would be better spent, for most, elsewhere. So why bicker with me?

10lbs? Let's call it 20 just to make sure. Now let's compare the difference when accelerating a 3000lb vehicle... If it makes a tenth of a second or even two on the quarter mile, are you really going to feel it? Gimme a break... Just like all the people who feel a difference with aluminum driveshafts or their new CAI. It's the placebo effect - you can't feel small differences in power. I know you've been on the board long enough to remember the endless debates regarding the aluminum D/S. You probably also remember the multitude of dynos. Some showed ridiculous dyno gains - most had other modifications. Others showed no difference at all. The general consensus now is that there is little if any difference with the aluminum D/S.

Do me a personal favor and don't post about the gains that your aluminum flywheel gives you unless you make no other changes. Streetability? Fine, because I've never argued that.

Now, just for the hell of it, I'm researching for articles or any substantive documented tests regarding aluminum flywheels vs. steel flywheels. Here's something someone else who actually HAS the part had to say:

I built 2 cars in the last few years, one for me and one for my son. They used almost identical drivetrains with about the same weight bodies. Both engines were Pontiac 455s with equivalent power (380 rwhp/ 470 rwtq) with Tremec TKO 5 spd trans, Moser 9" 3.70 rears, Denny's driveshafts, Lakewood bellhousings, CF dual Friction clutches, etc. Only real difference was my car had a 15 lb aluminum flywheel and his had a 30 lb steel flywheel. His car would pull the front wheels about 4" every launch and run better 60 foots. However, mine would pull slightly better ETs and more mph. From a 50-70 mph roll, I would always walk away from him. The lighter flywheel hurts you a bit at launch but helps you every where else. We both prefer driving the car with the lighter flywheel. Hope that helps.

Pretty much exactly in line with everything I've said.

Find something better to do, Mike. You're welcome to add your input, but don't belittle me for adding mine.

Chris

 

[FastDriver]

BTW, it's not theory, it's law. I didn't go through the formulas. If you want them bad enough, email me.

Chris