Anderson N/A power pipe vs C&L true flow

WhiteDevil · Jul 3, 2007

With all the mods i have on my damn stang i cant believe i am making this thread but i wanna see what you guys think. Right now i have the Anderson N/A power pipe. Its not a bad piece but its a little big, it barely fits, it rubs the crap out of my alternator, its cumbersome and hard to remove when im doing work in that area, and last winter in the rain i went through some big puddles and that kind of freaked me out because it goes pretty low. I am wanting to kind of simplify that area of my car and bring the MAF and filter back into the engine bay. I saw that C&L inlet tube on gcomfx.com's car and it looked nice and seems to fit the bill for what i want. What do you guys think. Will i lose any power? I could probably sell the Anderson and at least come out even on the C&L tube. Any thoughts?

Edit: And im not using the C&L MAF just the tube i have a Pro flow 80mm that i will be using with the tube that i am currently using with my Anderson pipe.

gcomfx.com · Jul 3, 2007

Example:

I have no idea what it does power or flow wise. I just know it was better than my stock rubber setup. Much nice to tap for nitrous. BTW - I bought it used off ebay a LONG time ago. Oh, and as I said in a PM. With my stock engine the temp sensor was fine. But with my new TrickFlow setup I did find it less stress on the harness to extend it a bit.

Grn92LX · Jul 3, 2007

You'll definatly lose power swapping on a 3" c&l pipe over a 4" afm p.p.

I personally have the c&l pipe with my 80mm pro m meter. Aside from it hitting the fenderwell its a nice simple piece.

5spd GT · Jul 3, 2007

Assuming you have a 4 inch powerpipe, why not a 3.5"? To much money?

3 inches is roughly 75mm's...

Remember inches/mm isn't necessarily the problem, but the cfm each flow. A 75mm power pipe would flow more than a 75mm MAF, because the MAF has a protrusion.

WhiteDevil · Jul 3, 2007

5spd GT said:
Assuming you have a 4 inch powerpipe, why not a 3.5"? To much money?

3 inches is roughly 75mm's...

Remember inches/mm isn't necessarily the problem, but the cfm each flow. A 75mm power pipe would flow more than a 75mm MAF, because the MAF has a protrusion.

Well i currently have an anderson power pipe which is 4in. I believe that the C&L is 3in in diameter. I was thinking the pipe might be smaller but its like half the length of the anderson so that might help?

final5-0 · Jul 3, 2007

I can't say I know for certain
but
I don't think a NA 350 ci motor needs a 4" id pipe to feed the air it can draw.

I CAN say this for certain

The id of a ProM 80 shorty meter is almost exactly the same
as the id of a piece of 3" pvc pipe.

I guess I would want to know the id of that C&L pipe.

I can say I've been wondering what the id is on those sections of
big truck exhaust pipe you see in auto supply houses.

Grady

WhiteDevil · Jul 3, 2007

final5-0 said:
I can't say I know for certain
but
I don't think a NA 350 ci motor needs a 4" id pipe to feed the air it can draw.

I CAN say this for certain

The id of a ProM 80 shorty meter is almost exactly the same
as the id of a piece of 3" pvc pipe.

I guess I would want to know the id of that C&L pipe.

I can say I've been wondering what the id is on those sections of
big truck exhaust pipe you see in auto supply houses.

Grady

I guess ill call C&L and see what the ID is of the tube.

final5-0 · Jul 3, 2007

I think as long as you don't go smaller than the inside diameter of
the meter you would be fine

Then again

If your tb and tb opening is 75mm
and
Your meter id is 80mm

Would it be more correct to say
You don't wanna go any smaller with the pipe id than 75mm

Off Topic Warning !!!

Woot ... 5K Post Count For Me

Grady

5spd GT · Jul 3, 2007

final5-0 said:
I can't say I know for certain
but
I don't think a NA 350 ci motor needs a 4" id pipe to feed the air it can draw.

I agree for sure...

WhiteDevil - Yeah, if length is the problem, maybe swapping to another 'brand' make help, I just thought the pipe diameter was too wide and thought maybe a AFM 3.5" would be better fitment, if that was what you were worried about....

sage2k · Jul 4, 2007

I will buy your powerpipe if you want to sell it, send me a pm

WhiteDevil · Jul 4, 2007

If it is 3in inside diameter that comes out to 76.2mm which is still larger than my 75mm throttle body. So it should still flow more than my Tbody can.

final5-0 · Jul 4, 2007

John

I do wanna make sure you know I'm not certain about all this airflow
stuff we are talking about.

I really do think a 4"id pipe is overkill for a 302-306 NA combo and
I feel pretty comfortable with that suspicion.

Same could be said for a NA 350 combo.

I feel 3" id pipe should be able to feed the air needed for 302-306 NA
street combos you typically see on these forums.

Now when you talk about forcing things ... I'd have to think a 3" id
pipe could be restrictive

I don't think I've seen any data on how much air various size pipes
can flow

Grady

WhiteDevil · Jul 4, 2007

final5-0 said:
John

I do wanna make sure you know I'm not certain about all this airflow
stuff we are talking about.

I really do think a 4"id pipe is overkill for a 302-306 NA combo and
I feel pretty comfortable with that suspicion.

Same could be said for a NA 350 NA combo.

I feel 3" id pipe should be able to feed the air needed for 302-306 NA
street combos you typically see on these forums.

Now when you talk about forcing things ... I'd have to think a 3" id
pipe could be restrictive

I don't think I've seen any data on how much air various size pipes
can flow

Grady

Well a 75mm tbody is just under 3in. You said the outlet side of a pro-m 80mm is almost perfect with a 3in PVC pipe. So what good does haveing it go from 3in to 4in then back to less than 3in. I dont think that would really buy me much. What i might do is take some WOT datalogs with my Anderson and then some WOT datalogs with the C&L and compare the KG/HR values that i get. Maybe that could shed some light on it.

final5-0 · Jul 4, 2007

WhiteDevil said:
Well a 75mm tbody is just under 3in. You said the outlet side of a pro-m 80mm is almost perfect with a 3in PVC pipe. So what good does haveing it go from 3in to 4in then back to less than 3in. I dont think that would really buy me much. What i might do is take some WOT datalogs with my Anderson and then some WOT datalogs with the C&L and compare the KG/HR values that i get. Maybe that could shed some light on it.

Well John

I have to agree with you

I suspect lots of peeps make their home made cai with 4" pipe simply
due to seeing after market pipes such the AFM setup.

It has been so long ago I don't remember all the specific details

but

I had my oem meter coupled to my oem tb with a 3" Fernco connector,
a section of 3" straight pipe, a 90 at the fender hole with a K&N hanging
down below the hole in the fender.

When I went to a different setup using the same tb, meter, filter with
no bends using 3" pipe I datalogged an increase in airflow

Seems like it was around 30KG's

I did a bit of testing several years ago with a flow meter and can say
for certain bends and convoluted pipe offer a good deal of air flow
restriction.

Grady

5spd GT · Jul 5, 2007

Hey Grady, I thought this was cool...it is a big off topic but maybe you could do something with it...

I'm sure you have got something better than this...but just thought I'd post it up...

Pipe Friction Calculator - http://www.efunda.com/formulae/fluids/calc_pipe_friction.cfm

Al J · Jul 6, 2007

I've recently installed the Anderson PPipe & MA meter. Pricey, but really woke up my mild H/C/I combo. To install, the wires to the meter need to be lengthened, and some sort of anchoring bracket must be fabricated to stop the pipe/meter from rattling around in the fender.
I installed 24lb injectors & a 190 fuel pump at the same time, but I think the bigger intake made the most difference. I'll dyno it soon, & 25-30 additional HP is my guess.
I also worry about the low hanging air filter (just behind the parking light) and I am going to make an aluminum shield to guard against inhaling water & snow, 'cuz I have a daily driver.

gcomfx.com · Jul 6, 2007

WhiteDevil said:
If it is 3in inside diameter that comes out to 76.2mm which is still larger than my 75mm throttle body. So it should still flow more than my Tbody can.

That was my thinking when I bought it. I hope to upgrade my T/B after vacation. Right now I have a 65mm on my beast.

Black95GTS · Jul 6, 2007

So... I know you all dog me because I get technical but here you go, straight from Prof. Shaughnessy in fluid dynamics (air is a fluid.)

The most effective piping system is one that has a minimum of head loss. The "head" of the fluid is the sum of the velocity, pressure, and elevation of the head. Head loss is the amount by which the pipe system reduces this number. Things that effect head loss include the diameter of the pipe, the friction of the pipe, and changes in the diameter of the pipe. The most important relationship is the diameter of the pipe; diameter and head loss are inversely related.

In longer piping systems, when a viscous liquid is involved, friction plays an important factor (major loss), but for such a short run, and considering that our liquid is air, the reynolds number for this system is essentially 0 and is a non factor. This means the losses that we must focus on are minor losses, ie changes in diameter and bends.

So to summarize, you want the straightest and largest pipe that you can conveniently fit on there!

Adam

WhiteDevil · Jul 6, 2007

What about shorter?

final5-0 · Jul 6, 2007

Adam

Take my simple setup where the pipe section is about 12" long

Now on one end is the meter that is 80mm or the largest size
opening in the entire intake system.

If you went to a 4" pipe the id could be a bit smaller
but never the less ...
That airflow is gonna encounter a large step down in size when
it encounters the smaller 75mm tb.

I just wonder about ............

The step down would be less restrictive with a 3.5" pipe
and
Smaller still with a 3" pipe

Yet both the 3.5" and 3" pipes are larger than the tb opening so that
makes the tb opening still the smallest opening we are dealing with.

I mean ... the length is only 12" or shorter

Please share your thoughts

This may be one of those deals where ... what seems to be ... is not

Grady

Anderson N/A power pipe vs C&L true flow

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