ANOTHER coil-over kit -- Ron Morris Performance

[180 Out]

Lookee here, another coil-over conversion kit for the '65-'66, from Ron Morris Performance. Joining TCP, Global West, and Unique Performance in the two-arm market, and RRS and Fatman in the MacPherson. The link: http://www.ronmorrisperformance.com/01hot_new/index.html

$2500 gets you these parts:

As installed:

The coil-overs are QA1 12-ways. 1.75" Shelby drop. Adjustable tire stops (something I could use with 235/45-17's on 17 x 8's w/5" BS). Two-way adjustable sway bar. Retains OE steering. Adjusts camber by changing LCA length (not good).

 

[302 coupe]

 

[THX 138]

those shock mount brackets are as bad as the TCP ones. They should be billet aluminum or beefier steel plate with more reinforcements or billet steel

 

[Swede958]

For some reason the clevis ends on the strut rod just seem like a bad idea to me... i know the main load is in the shear, but if it's possible to break a strut rod it seems like that'd be a little weak to me

 

[180 Out]

A little comparison shopping:

According to TCP's own website, TCP wants $2200 for this kit, using VariShock coil-overs, 16-way adjustable for compression and rebound (256 possible combos), UCA length used to adjust camber (not good):

I'm guessing the spindles are not included. I'm also guessing, because the TCP kit is so much cheaper than anyone else's (when did you ever think you'd see that?), and because the strut rod is kind of "grayed out" in the jpg photo, that the TCP kit doesn't include the strut rod:

The strut rods go for $370/pair. Adding that to the coil-over kit brings the total to $2570.

Anyway, here's a link: http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/coil.html

According to NPD's catalog (available for download as a pdf, but I can't link to it), the Global West stuff goes for $2750 with non-adjustable shocks, $2995 with single adjustables, and $3,250 with double adjustables. A $500 swing, depending on shocks? That's a lot. Anyway, here's what you get:

Installed:

Shimmed UCA's adjust camber (good!), but it swings on bushings, not rod ends like all the others (bad!!!). (The GW LCA's use rod ends.) Here's a link. http://www.gwsuspension.com/

Finally, according to Unique Performance Product's web site, UPP wants $2400 for this:

Spindles and Baer "Shelby" brakes obviously not included. QA1 coil-overs, 11 compression, 6 rebound levels; springs are available in different stiffness levels, from 250 - 400 lbs/in.

Here's a link: http://www.uniqueperformanceproducts.com/ProductPage.aspx?ItemID=29

 

[68rustang]

How much are you getting from RMP to hype his stuff on the boards?

What makes adjustable upper arms bad and solid arms adjusted with shims good? If anything the adjustable arms would make setting or tweaking your alignment pretty easy.

 

[krash kendall]

I think the problem with adjustable lowers is that you will encounter adverse steering effects as the length of the arm changes due the geometry of the knuckle being designed to have the steering arm and tie rod end travelling as close to the same arc as the lower arm ball joint as possible. Also the arc the strut rod travels will be altered with an adjustable lower control arm.

I don't see any problem with an adjustable UCA though.

 

[fvike]

According to TCP's own website, TCP wants $2200 for this kit, using VariShock coil-overs, 16-way adjustable for compression and rebound (256 possible combos), UCA length used to adjust camber (not good):

I'm guessing the spindles are not included. I'm also guessing, because the TCP kit is so much cheaper than anyone else's (when did you ever think you'd see that?), and because the strut rod is kind of "grayed out" in the jpg photo, that the TCP kit doesn't include the strut rod:

The strut rods go for $370/pair. Adding that to the coil-over kit brings the total to $2570.

Anyway, here's a link: http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/coil.html

I think the Strut rod is included. In the TCP PDF brochure, under the picture of the coil-over kit, it only denotes the spindle as "not included".
That brings the TCP kit to $2200.

 

[180 Out]

How much are you getting from RMP to hype his stuff on the boards?

I hadn't thought of that. I think a set of those adjustable motor mounts would do it.

Actually, from my comparison shopping post, and assuming the TCP kit does not include strut rods, I'd say the UPP setup is the one to buy, dollar for dollar. If Global West would sell its solid aluminum upper shock mount separately, that unit plus the UPP kit would be the best of all worlds. I can't understand why GW would use those expensive Del-Alum bushings when Kevlar rod ends are so cheap and so much better.

What makes adjustable upper arms bad and solid arms adjusted with shims good? If anything the adjustable arms would make setting or tweaking your alignment pretty easy.

Control arms should be the same length from side to side. If you can achieve that AND correct camber on both sides too, then using control arm length to adjust camber would be OK. However, that's pretty unlikely. On the other hand, since you could leave the control arms equal length side to side and use shims to adjust camber with the TCP, UPP, or RMP kits, it's really a non-issue. Or you could add an $80 Pro Motorsports "Vario-Centric" LCA mounting kit to your '65-'66 and skip the UCA shims too.

Here's a link: https://www.pro-motorsports.com/store/product.asp?id=14

 

[Opentracker]

Damn, that is a lot of money for what you get, sorry but I don't see the value in that. The change from a stock suspension to a roller suspension is huge, plenty IMO for a street car or part time track car. The spindle doesn't care what it's bolted too, if it moves the right way, the car will handle well.

The two things you get with a coil over is a better motion ratio and a quicker moving suspension because of the lack of rubber bushings. A roller front end gives you the quick moving suspension and you can improve the motion ratio by moving the spring perch forward on the upper arm.

The spring perch location has been moved 1 1/4" on these arms. With this mod the motion ratio goes up from ~0.6 to ~0.73, making the wheel rate 1.5 times stiffer. Not bad for an almost free mod.


John

 

[180 Out]

I think the Strut rod is included. In the TCP PDF brochure, under the picture of the coil-over kit, it only denotes the spindle as "not included".
That brings the TCP kit to $2200.

I think you're right. I found this page on the Mustangs Unlimited web site http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=CO6566+01 quoting a $2200 price for the TCP kit and stating this:

Includes:
-Double Adjustable Shocks
-Coil Springs (your choice of 550 or 650 lb/in.)
-Upper Control Arms
-Lower Control Arms
-Strut Rods
-Urethane Bushings

So it looks like TCP is the price leader. Now the question is, how do these "VariShocks" compare with the QA1's used in the UPP and RMP kits, and the Afco's that GW uses? The shocks make or break any chassis.

I also wonder about the weak shock mount issue. TCP, UPP, and RMS all use fabricated sheet metal brackets, uppers and lowers. TCP has been out there a long time. It's been at least five years since I first saw a kit on a car, at the Fun Ford Sunday at the Great Mall of America (actually the former Milpitas (aka "San Jose") Ford assembly plant). If this is design is weak, it seems like some of them would have broken by now. The Dark Horse Racing '71 Mach 1 (331 ci, 475 rwhp) race car has been running the TCP setup since about that same time frame. Here's a quote from their website, about an American Iron Extreme race at Lowes in August 2004:

"Although the clutch was gone after the parade lap, the Team Dark Horse Mach I passed three competitors on the first lap, reaching speeds over 170 on the high bank and quickly moving through the pack.

"Gluck credited the Canfield heads and Comp Cams camshafts for the strong top-end power in the new engine. In addition, the suspension upgrades from Total Control Products "hooked up unbelievably" well on the high-banked tri-oval part of the course, he said. 'We were running the high groove like there was no tomorrow.'"

Here's a link: http://www.darkhorseracing.net/lowes_july_19.htm Here's the car's specs: http://www.darkhorseracing.net/aix_71_mustang.htm

It sounds like this Gluck guy doesn't fear weakness in the TCP coil-over design. 170 mph on the banking at Charlotte shows a lot of faith.

 

[Pbum5]

What ever happened to the guy on here building his own tubular suspensions?

Was it Dolfan?

Anyone?

 

[Hack]

What ever happened to the guy on here building his own tubular suspensions?

Was it Dolfan?

Anyone?

Yeah, that's right. I haven't heard word one from him for quite some time.

 

[Glen's 1965 5.0]

Excellent post with great info and comparisons. I am doing the fatmans conversion since I thought it was a decent setup and I received most of the kit cheap from another fellow who changed directions.

Keep in mind that I am NOT a road racer. If I were then I would stay with the double arm setup.

But for a rack & Pinion setup, late model mustang braking and parts and my adjustable strut rods. I think I will be happy. Alignment was pretty easy, or so I think.

I will post my findings when I am up and running in a few months.

 

[bnickel]

Yeah, that's right. I haven't heard word one from him for quite some time.

he's been extremely busy with the band, they have been booked pretty much solid for quite a while now. last time i talked to him he hadn't even touched his car since they fired the motor for the first time and that was back in october. he' still out there and as far as i know he still plans on getting his system to market but some things in his life have priorities over others.

 

[Taranis]

Thanks to everyone for posting this information. I was about to post a thread asking information on the different coilover kits out there.

 

[DukeGnarley]

correct me if i'm wrong, but as far as the adjustable control arms go, i think they are only for adjusting your rate of camber gain. Alignment should always be done with shims (for 65-66 at least).

 

[Psydwaze]

Great thread! And thanks to those that research the facts.

Just to confirm, the $2200 price does include the strut rod. (data sheet 437K)
And you are free to use whichever early Ford spindle and brake combination you wish.

In my years with TCP I have never seen an upper shock mount failure other than some sheet metal distortion at the mounting bolts (mdjay), which all manufacturers have address by adding the support ring or placing their mounts underneath the tower. As far as the mount design itself, it has proven to be an extremely reliable, low cost design. We could make a pretty billet aluminum one but then we would have to sell a $2500 kit instead of a $2200 kit for a part you don't see once its on the car.

The adjustable upper control arm is to provide an increased caster range beyond non-adjustable arms, without having to draw the lower arm forward creating clearance issues with the fender. We supply shims to place between the pivot shaft and shock tower to avoid having different length control arms. I don't have an image on the webserver but the shims are shown in the upper control arm data sheet (394K).

 

[KiwiGT]

Great thread! And thanks to those that research the facts.

Just to confirm, the $2200 price does include the strut rod. (data sheet 437K)
And you are free to use whichever early Ford spindle and brake combination you wish.

In my years with TCP I have never seen an upper shock mount failure other than some sheet metal distortion at the mounting bolts (mdjay), which all manufacturers have address by adding the support ring or placing their mounts underneath the tower. As far as the mount design itself, it has proven to be an extremely reliable, low cost design. We could make a pretty billet aluminum one but then we would have to sell a $2500 kit instead of a $2200 kit for a part you don't see once its on the car.

The adjustable upper control arm is to provide an increased caster range beyond non-adjustable arms, without having to draw the lower arm forward creating clearance issues with the fender. We supply shims to place between the pivot shaft and shock tower to avoid having different length control arms. I don't have an image on the webserver but the shims are shown in the upper control arm data sheet (394K).

PM sent to you Psydwaze

 

[mdjay]

I would like to say just be very careful and patient on the new RM kit. I have a feeling we're going to hear some feedback on these.

The TCP upper shock mount is pretty damn tuff and when the support rings we're included , they got even stronger.

Remember, I have experience smackin' a curb at around 40 mph and those mounts did just fine.

IMO the TCP one is the clear winner for quality, price and some clear improvements they've done along the way. Not mentioning the fact that when the product is released, we vendors can actually get the product

The eccentric eliminator mentioned earlier is a must IMO with the new lower...