Drivetrain Aod Tech Guys Heeeelp!

95Vert383AOD · Sep 22, 2012

I have an AOD
My Shift pattern is >P R N 3 2 1<
I run a manual valve body.
Overdrive and Reverse operate by solenoid

So i just got my transmission refreshed and decided to go with an EDGE converter. I requested a 3000-3200 stall. Previous converter was a non-lockup.

The problem:
When shifting down to 1st gear i must pass 3rd. If i don't do it quickly the trans will lock my motor up when i pass 3rd gear causing it to immediately die. Does this sounds like i got a lockup converter? My previous Non-lockup converter wouldn't do this. Also for some reason i now have no reverse.

My transmission guy is on vacation and i really hate to bug him just yet. Can anyone shed some light as to whats going on?

Other than that the car drives fine threw the gears on the test ride. I removed the pan and ran 12v to the solenoid and verified its functional.

If it is a lockup when clearly i ordered a non-lockup what should i do?

Thanks,
Chris

95Vert383AOD · Sep 22, 2012

BUMP...Anyone?

Noobz347 · Sep 22, 2012

Nobody's alive yet. Soon though.

95Vert383AOD · Sep 22, 2012

Noobz347 said:
Nobody's alive yet. Soon though.

Thanks... I've got my car occupying a lift bay at a friends shop. Maybe i should call my transmission guy back on vacation?

Noobz347 · Sep 22, 2012

95Vert383AOD said:
Thanks... I've got my car occupying a lift bay at a friends shop. Maybe i should call my transmission guy back on vacation?

... or call A transmission guy. I'm definitely not that guy. LOL I rely on people who know what the hell they're doing.

gearheadboy · Sep 22, 2012

If your transmission shuts the motor down when you shift past 3rd it sounds like they have something wrong inside. And lock up vs non lock up has nothing to do with shutting the motor down. (or locking it up). It kinda gives you an extra gear at highway speed, to put it in simple terms. If you don't know what a lock up vs non lock up means, how did you know thats what you wanted?

pearlnotchback · Sep 22, 2012

gearheadboy said:
If your transmission shuts the motor down when you shift past 3rd it sounds like they have something wrong inside. And lock up vs non lock up has nothing to do with shutting the motor down. (or locking it up). It kinda gives you an extra gear at highway speed, to put it in simple terms. If you don't know what a lock up vs non lock up means, how did you know thats what you wanted?

What he said

89BlackGTvert · Sep 22, 2012

You have a lockup convertor. I have one also with a lentech VB. If I don't quickly ratchet past 3rd, my car will stall. That's because when you have a AOD and lockup it does it automatically when you hit 3rd. I am thinking about going non-lockup myself.
Sent from my PI86100 using Board Express

95Vert383AOD · Sep 23, 2012

89BlackGTvert said:
You have a lockup convertor. I have one also with a lentech VB. If I don't quickly ratchet past 3rd, my car will stall. That's because when you have a AOD and lockup it does it automatically when you hit 3rd. I am thinking about going non-lockup myself.
Sent from my PI86100 using Board Express

Yeah i talked to Andre today. He sent me a lockup. He said i can send it back and he will remove the "feature". My transmission builder originally built my transmission with a non-lockup converter. There was some confusion with Andre over at EDGE but all will be fine. I don't like the fact that the car starts lugging bad when you slow down in 3rd.

For some reason i have no reverse either and i was told the the converter has nothing to do with this. Looks like the transmission is going to have to go back to the transmission guy. I was hoping to save a trip to him. I checked the reverse solenoid by running 12v to it. It clicks like its supposed to.

gearheadboy · Sep 23, 2012

It sounds as though your converter is locked up all the time or it is being locked as soon as it hits 3rd. It is controlled by fluid pressure and should not engage "all the time" in third gear. Your new valve body may not be matched to the converter or may have a problem. The main reason to run a NON lock up is because you run a solid input shaft which would be hollow and prone to breaking if you have a lock up. The shaft is a path for fluid and is therefor hollow. If you go to a NON lock up you will need a new input shaft.

95Vert383AOD · Sep 23, 2012

The valve body isnt new

gearheadboy said:
It sounds as though your converter is locked up all the time or it is being locked as soon as it hits 3rd. It is controlled by fluid pressure and should not engage "all the time" in third gear. Your new valve body may not be matched to the converter or may have a problem. The main reason to run a NON lock up is because you run a solid input shaft which would be hollow and prone to breaking if you have a lock up. The shaft is a path for fluid and is therefor hollow. If you go to a NON lock up you will need a new input shaft.

The valve body isnt new. The converter is. The old converter was a non-lockup. I have 3 shafts and the center one (3rd gear) is solid.

I realize i need to get this converter out. Do you think it may be having any effect on my reverse?

gearheadboy · Sep 23, 2012

If I remember correctly, its been a while since I did one but.. IF you have 3 "shafts" or splined areas, the outer is stationary and is hooked directly to the pump. Its not really a shaft. The small inner one that will usually just pull out, and the "hollow one" that I was referring to. If you have 3 then you are set up for a lock-up. If you run a non lock-up you need to ditch the inner hollow shaft and the small inner shaft and replace with a solid single shaft. I would say no to it effecting your reverse. It sounds like you could have a cut seal (internal) that is causing a leak or something is bound up internal. If something doesn't stack up right you can bind stuff up and cause all sorts of issues. It needs to be torn down in my opinion, unless it has the wrong valve body gaskets, or check ball placement is incorrect. There are a million possibilities.

88LX5.Oh · Sep 23, 2012

Torque converters either work or they don't. You're not gonna find a reverse problem caused by a torque converter. If you are 100% sure the electronics for your reverse set up are in working order, you have either an internal problem or a valve body problem. Take it to your transmission guy.

Just had a 4R70W come in my shop with no reverse but still had forward gears. Since the customer just wanted to patch it, we reused the torque converter, fixed the problem, and off it went.

95Vert383AOD · Sep 23, 2012

88LX5.Oh said:
Torque converters either work or they don't. You're not gonna find a reverse problem caused by a torque converter. If you are 100% sure the electronics for your reverse set up are in working order, you have either an internal problem or a valve body problem. Take it to your transmission guy.

Just had a 4R70W come in my shop with no reverse but still had forward gears. Since the customer just wanted to patch it, we reused the torque converter, fixed the problem, and off it went.

Maybe i can figure out how to test the solenoid. It clicks but maybe its not working correctly. Its very small and has a rubber o-ring. It seems like it either blocks fluid or allows it to flow back into the pan. I wish i had pics when i dropped the pan. The OD and the Reverse solenoid look the same so maybe i'll reverse them and see if that swaps the problem to the O/D. Unless i can check the resistance.

My solenoids look like this
http://www.atfspeed.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=197_225_162&products_id=444

gearheadboy · Sep 25, 2012

If it makes noise it works electrically probably, but does it work mechanically? Thats the question. It could be dirty, have junk in it or the valve behind it could be the issue. Does the thing hook to a controller of any kind or just an on-off switch? Some solenoids are pulse width modulated which means a 12v "test lead" hooked to them will destroy them. They are never ON 12v. If they are the same, swap them around and clean them out with brake cleaner when you do. I'm betting something is bound up inside or the valve body gasket is wrong.

95Vert383AOD · Sep 25, 2012

gearheadboy said:
If it makes noise it works electrically probably, but does it work mechanically? Thats the question. It could be dirty, have junk in it or the valve behind it could be the issue. Does the thing hook to a controller of any kind or just an on-off switch? Some solenoids are pulse width modulated which means a 12v "test lead" hooked to them will destroy them. They are never ON 12v. If they are the same, swap them around and clean them out with brake cleaner when you do. I'm betting something is bound up inside or the valve body gasket is wrong.

When i checked it i used brake cleaner. I just didn't swap them. In hindsight i kinda wish i did. Its just a 1 wire 12v solenoid. I decided against spraying anything directly into the valve body opening. The solenoids are a custom part of the valve body and have holes drilled in the casing for them to plug in.

gearheadboy · Sep 25, 2012

Gotcha. So its on or off. You can spray brake clean in the valve body, it wont hurt it.

95Vert383AOD · Sep 25, 2012

The link i posed above looks identical to the solenoid in my transmission.

do you think brake cleaner and maybe some compressed air into the valve body threw the hole may work??

gearheadboy · Sep 25, 2012

On most valve bodies when you pull the solenoid out, you can pull the valve out with a magnet and wash the bore out with brake clean. Or you can push on it with a small screw driver, being careful not to scratch the bore. It should be spring loaded and you can work it back and forth a few times to unstick it if it is stuck. The valves and bore are so close in size that a piece of paper towel or debris can hang it up more than fluid pressure can overcome. Easy with the compressed air, some, not 180lbs.

95Vert383AOD · Sep 25, 2012

gearheadboy said:
On most valve bodies when you pull the solenoid out, you can pull the valve out with a magnet and wash the bore out with brake clean. Or you can push on it with a small screw driver, being careful not to scratch the bore. It should be spring loaded and you can work it back and forth a few times to unstick it if it is stuck. The valves and bore are so close in size that a piece of paper towel or debris can hang it up more than fluid pressure can overcome. Easy with the compressed air, some, not 180lbs.

OK so i'll get a magnet and try pulling it out. Its not hard to get back together is it?

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