i have always heard that the shorties dont make anything, and there are probably a lot of people that have there minds set on the thought that shorties just wont make power, but i have a few friends that tried these out, and there is definately a seat of the pants feel to them. they made noticeably more horsepower than the factory manifolds. one thing is for sure, and that is the fact that they dont have such a broad powerband, like the longtubes, but for ease of maintenance and being able to use whatever midpipe u might have. they are not that bad of a deal. i am actually thinkning of getting them myself