Automatic Trans questions

kid rock · Jul 15, 2007

Hey guys got a few Qs for yah, but first some details about my car:

its a 1998 GT automatic, with the usual mods, wheels, catback, PI intake etc etc

1) would a faulty torque converter cause the trans fluid to go bad?

2) how much will a new factory torque converter cost?

3) if the TQ is faulty will it harm the rest of the trans?

4) how much would an upgraded auto trans cost? (built by sombody in the states and me having to have it transported over) nothing major im only looking at running 300ish HP

5) my main problem at the moment is my torque converter ( i think) keeps locking on me at random times (accelerating, slowing down etc etc) as when i got the car the TQ never locked (this is my first mustang so i didnt know any better, then it started working one day and i thought at first it was broken lol, but it wasnt, igot it looked at over here and they said the car is acting fine) but it has since been causing me problems!

6) is there any known problems with the AODE trans (that what i got right?)?

7) any body had theese problems as well?

8) should the torque converter work when i switch O/D off?

9) what are peoples cruising RPM at the following:

10mph
20mph
30mph
40mph
50mph
60mph
70mph
80mph

sorry for all the questions but i cant just drop the car off at a trans place and get them to look at it like i could in the states!

Thanks again guys

Si

DBMSTNG · Jul 15, 2007

kid rock said:
Hey guys got a few Qs for yah, but first some details about my car:

its a 1998 GT automatic, with the usual mods, wheels, catback, PI intake etc etc

1) would a faulty torque converter cause the trans fluid to go bad?

yes, if the convertor isn't locking, it's creating excess heat. heat kills transmissions.

2) how much will a new factory torque converter cost?

dunno, but your probably better off getting an aftermarket convertor for the price.

3) if the TQ is faulty will it harm the rest of the trans?

see #1

4) how much would an upgraded auto trans cost? (built by sombody in the states and me having to have it transported over) nothing major im only looking at running 300ish HP

you don't need to upgrade the trans @ 300hp. I've got 500+hp at the crank with a stock tranny and j-mod.

5) my main problem at the moment is my torque converter ( i think) keeps locking on me at random times (accelerating, slowing down etc etc) as when i got the car the TQ never locked (this is my first mustang so i didnt know any better, then it started working one day and i thought at first it was broken lol, but it wasnt, igot it looked at over here and they said the car is acting fine) but it has since been causing me problems!

could be an electrical problem. if you have a datalogger, you should be able to log the locks

6) is there any known problems with the AODE trans (that what i got right?)?

the 4r70w is reliable trans when properly maintained

7) any body had theese problems as well?

8) should the torque converter work when i switch O/D off?

yes

9) what are peoples cruising RPM at the following:

with 3.27's
10mph
20mph
30mph
40mph
50mph about 1500rpm
60mph
70mph about 2000rpm
80mph

sorry for all the questions but i cant just drop the car off at a trans place and get them to look at it like i could in the states!

Thanks again guys

Si

CobraRed_96_GT · Jul 15, 2007

based on him thinking it's a TC problem and it going away w/ o/d on and him saying (accelerating, slowing down etc etc) sounds like he's talking about the 3-4 shift which is activated by a band type clutch which cant be avoided. The only real noticeable problem u may feel w/ a TC is called TC shudder, which after shifting into a higher gear like 2nd or 3rd at low rpms the car shimmies under power - quite noticeable. slow shifts that waste time in really high rpms and just take too long are caused by faulty accumulator springs/pistons and housings. the 3-4 shift is quite normal to be all crappy, but o/d is mainly for fuel saving, and you should have O/D off when doing power runs.
If you can describe what ur feeling a bit more u might save some money from buying a new TC and installing it just to find the same old problems.

nyuk98gt · Jul 15, 2007

kid rock:

Read "Transmissions 101" [by Jerry Wroblewski] at TCCoA.com in the Technical Articles/Transmission section. Mr. W is a former Ford transmission engineer and knows his stuff.

WOT 3-4 shifts are very bad for these transmissions and there is a spring clip on one of the clutches (I don't remember which one) that should be replaced with a stronger piece. Otherwise, it is a very good transmission. It can be made better and the t/c can be much improved. If the fluid smells burnt (fresh Mercon V has a distinct aroma), then it is likely that a clutch has been overheated. If the t/c has failed, then converter clutch material will be floating in the fluid. This is not good. When you drop the pan, you will see some grey "fur" on the magnet. A thin coat, say 1/8", is OK after 15 to 20 kmiles. If there is a lot of material, then you need to have the transmissoin and t/c inspected by somebody who knows what they are doing. I don't know whether the old cooler (in the rad) can be flushed free of contaminants but, if not removed, this material will cause problems in the new/revised transmission. I suggest that you contact Darrin (here, at MD, at Corral,...) if only to talk with him. He is a recognized 4R70W wizard and a stand-up guy.

Install a transmission cooler while you're at it and the new parts will last much longer.

HTH,

Chris

kid rock · Jul 15, 2007

DBMSTNG, CobraRed_96_GT and nyuk98g thx for the info

DBMSTNG = thanks for the info!

CobraRed_96_GT = thx as well, the part you talk about is this an easy, ready to buy part from a good tranny place is the state? at the same time can i buy a kit to replace a few other essential items within the tranny ( might as well while im in there, if the tranny is coming apart i do intend on doing some kind of shift kit/j-mod etc)

nyuk98g = im reading the tranny 101 guide (thanks for the link btw) and i think from what ive read it could be "the forward clutch seal" this points back to my question to cobraRed, does this part come in some kind of kit?

Thanks guys,

anybody else got any info?

si

kid rock · Jul 15, 2007

also i sometimes get a clunk when going from reverse to first and wheni put my foot down to go i get a massive clunk and lurch forward like ive just been his up the ass!

this cant be good can it?

also when i chaged my tranny fluid last year the new stuff smelt like fish (used penzoil, mercon V equivalent) and now smells slightly burnt, this cannot be good can it?

Si

P.S maybe a kit like this?? http://www.transmissioncenter.net/stock_master_rebuild_kits.htm#4R70W

what about a tranny cooler like this? summit

(i am limited on choice and summit is one of the few compnays who ship to the UK so if sombody could suggest a good unit that would be great) i also intend at the sametime to fit a temp guage for the tranny so i can keep on eye on the temps, what temp range should i go for?

Dark Knight GT · Jul 15, 2007

kid rock said:
also i sometimes get a clunk when going from reverse to first and wheni put my foot down to go i get a massive clunk and lurch forward like ive just been his up the ass!

An occasional drivetrain "clunk" can be the result of a bad u-joint, or possibly something in the rear differential that is going bad. Might want to check the rear differential fluid and make sure that it's full and fresh. Do you still have the stock gears and differential in the rear ?

also when i chaged my tranny fluid last year the new stuff smelt like fish (used penzoil, mercon V equivalent) and now smells slightly burnt, this cannot be good can it?

What color was the transmission fluid when you last checked it ? The color means more than the smell.

P.S maybe a kit like this?? http://www.transmissioncenter.net/stock_master_rebuild_kits.htm#4R70W

I can't see the specific details of that kit. The main thing to beware of with any kit is if it asks you to alter your line pressure or putting a blocker ring into one of the accumulator pistons.

Personally, I would do the J-mod shift kit. There are articles for it over at www.tccoa.com I know it's a T-bird and Cougar club, but the transmission in the T-birds is the 4r70w, which is the same as what we use in the GT's.

Also, read all the links with "Jerry mod" in blue written next to them from this page:

http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny/index.html

what about a tranny cooler like this? summit

B&M makes some of the best coolers for transmissions period. So, yes, I would recommend it.

i also intend at the sametime to fit a temp guage for the tranny so i can keep on eye on the temps, what temp range should i go for?

The lower the better. I don't remember what the specific temperature range is for the 4r70w automatic. With that B&M cooler, you shouldn't have any problems keeping it cool.

kid rock · Jul 16, 2007

Dark Knight GT
Quote:
Originally Posted by kid rock
also i sometimes get a clunk when going from reverse to first and wheni put my foot down to go i get a massive clunk and lurch forward like ive just been his up the ass!

An occasional drivetrain "clunk" can be the result of a bad u-joint, or possibly something in the rear differential that is going bad. Might want to check the rear differential fluid and make sure that it's full and fresh. Do you still have the stock gears and differential in the rear ? i have some 373 gears to go in the rear end anyway so will get that done asap and where is the u-joint?

Quote:
also when i chaged my tranny fluid last year the new stuff smelt like fish (used penzoil, mercon V equivalent) and now smells slightly burnt, this cannot be good can it?

What color was the transmission fluid when you last checked it ? The color means more than the smell. i checked it after a 20 min drive and it was a red-brownish color, but i read it is meant to be like this when warm, will check tonite when it is cold

Quote:
P.S maybe a kit like this?? http://www.transmissioncenter.net/st...kits.htm#4R70W

I can't see the specific details of that kit. The main thing to beware of with any kit is if it asks you to alter your line pressure or putting a blocker ring into one of the accumulator pistons. any other good companys? i dont want to rebuild the whole thing just certain parts that are prone to wear and yes i will indeed do the j-mod

Personally, I would do the J-mod shift kit. There are articles for it over at www.tccoa.com I know it's a T-bird and Cougar club, but the transmission in the T-birds is the 4r70w, which is the same as what we use in the GT's.

Also, read all the links with "Jerry mod" in blue written next to them from this page:

http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny/index.htmli will read up during the day today

Quote:
what about a tranny cooler like this? summit

B&M makes some of the best coolers for transmissions period. So, yes, I would recommend it. does anybody have a certain size that is reccomended? ie i dont want to buy one to big and not be able to fit it correctly

Quote:
i also intend at the sametime to fit a temp guage for the tranny so i can keep on eye on the temps, what temp range should i go for?

The lower the better. I don't remember what the specific temperature range is for the 4r70w automatic. With that B&M cooler, you shouldn't have any problems keeping it cool.

Thanks Dark Knight i will let you know how i get on tonite

CobraRed_96_GT · Jul 16, 2007

If you get a kit i'd recommend Transgo cuz i love mine, but many recommend plainly the j-mod which lists the parts u'll need (most from the Ford stealer) and the processes that will need to be done. That stacked plate cooler u linked is fine, i believe thats the exact one im using, brings the tranny down to perfect operating temp. Brownish tranny fuild isnt normal, especially if it smells burnt - wait to change the fluid untill you do ur tranny work and just spring for the expensive synthetics that handle heat a lot better (Mercon V or Mobil 1 synthetic ATF). If u have any others questions pm me if u dont get em answered cuz i went through the same steps b4 i built up my 4R

kid rock · Jul 17, 2007

ill have a look at the transgo kit today, and kool about the cooler i will get that ordered asap!

I am gonna assume that mobil 1 synthetic ATF in the US and UK are the same ( unless anybody can correct me?) is royal purple synthetic? as i have read good things about them?

Im not sure if my tranny dip stick smells burnt or its the fluid, as when i got the car it had brown tranny fluid, might just get a new one anyway just in case!

and another questionfor the pot, what fluid do i need for the rear end? is it the same as ATF?

and thanks CobraRed_96_GT for the offer i WILL be taking you up on that offer at some point!

thanks

Si

Dark Knight GT · Jul 17, 2007

kid rock said:
i have some 373 gears to go in the rear end anyway so will get that done asap and where is the u-joint?
When you change out the rear end gears, you will need to pick up 3 qts of rear differential fluid, and some friction modifier/slip additive. You won't be putting the full 3qts in, but you should be able to fill it up with a bit more than 2. If you've ever thought about an aftermarket differential cover, now would be the time to get one. If you have the gears installed professionally, have them look over the rear differential clutch pack and axle bearings to make sure they're not damaged.

i checked it after a 20 min drive and it was a red-brownish color, but i read it is meant to be like this when warm, will check tonite when it is cold

Click to expand...

If it's turning brown, then it needs to be changed in the near future. Only use Mercon V, and I don't recommend Penzoil. Motorcraft Mercon V is good, and so is Amsoil universal synthetic auto transmission fluid. Be sure to change the filter the next time you change the fluid, and yes, use a Motorcraft transmission filter. They're the best ones I've seen so far.
any other good companys? i dont want to rebuild the whole thing just certain parts that are prone to wear and yes i will indeed do the j-mod
If you do the J-mod, you should be ok. The j-mod only requires you enlarge the holes in the seperator plate, change out a couple springs, and thats about it. You'll also need a set of seperator plate gaskets. You can pick these up at any Ford Dealership. the articles that at Tccoa should give you all the information you need, but please read carefully and make sure you know what you're doing before you do it. If you do your own work, then the next time you change your fluid I would do the j-mod then since you're going to have the pan off the car, and need to drain the transmission anyways.

does anybody have a certain size that is reccomended? ie i dont want to buy one to big and not be able to fit it correctly

Click to expand...

If Sumit says it's suppost to fit your car, then it should fit your car. I don't think there is such a thing as too big of a transmission cooler.

Dark Knight GT · Jul 17, 2007

kid rock said:
I am gonna assume that mobil 1 synthetic ATF in the US and UK are the same ( unless anybody can correct me?) is royal purple synthetic? as i have read good things about them?

Royal Purple is synthetic, yes. Mobil 1 is Mobil 1 and it should be the same there as it is here. Might want to call Mobil company to be sure.

and another questionfor the pot, what fluid do i need for the rear end? is it the same as ATF?

No, it is not the same. You'll need rear differential fluid. The stock fluid is 75w180 if I'm not mistaken. I personally use Amsoil full synthetic 75w90 rear differential fluid, and I've had no problems with it. I'm pretty sure Mobil 1 and Royal Purple also make a rear differential fluid for your application.

kid rock · Jul 17, 2007

http://transmissioncenter.net/Shift_Kits.htm

on the above website if you do a search for 4r70w they list 2 kits

------------------------------------------------------------------

KIT 1:

#8. AODE / 4R70W Fairbanks high performance TransAction kit. Fits 1991 to 2002. This TransAction kit includes a newly designed OD servo piston and a no leak performance design 2-3 accumulator piston. Includes steel boost valve and sleeve to replace worn OEM. This is the same kit we use in the Interceptor transmissions. Cost $118.00

Offers 3 levels of Performance:

1. Heavy Duty
2. Street & Strip
3. Full Competition

------------------------------------------------------------------

KIT 2:

#KAOD-E-V. Fits 1991-2002 AODE / 4R70W transmissions, with steel valve. Cost $40.00

This valve body kit deals with these problems:

Soft sloppy 1-2 shifts
Inadequate lube
Overdrive band failure
3rd clutch failure
2nd roller clutch failure
Soft sloppy 3-4 shifts
Converter shudder
New boost valve included to replace
worn OE valve
Just one Superior kit does both the AOD-E and the 4R70W Transmissions.
The AOD-E kit offers regular and heavy-duty applications.
Use of this transmission in police cars many times means come backs due to unit failure. This package was largely designed and developed through field testing on police vehicles.
Included in this kit is a special design Spiral "Plus" ring set. The "New Millenium" two piece design in the AOD-E Shift Correction Package features the Spiral Ring and the G-lock ring, teamed up to withstand testing at over 16,000 RPM on a dynamometer. Even at that high speed the new design did not fail. The New Spiral "Plus" ring set replaces the stock snap ring that often times slings off.

------------------------------------------------------------------

are these kits similar or can they/will they complement each other?

thx

Si

Dark Knight GT · Jul 17, 2007

kid rock said:
http://transmissioncenter.net/Shift_Kits.htm

on the above website if you do a search for 4r70w they list 2 kits

------------------------------------------------------------------

KIT 1:

#8. AODE / 4R70W Fairbanks high performance TransAction kit. Fits 1991 to 2002. This TransAction kit includes a newly designed OD servo piston and a no leak performance design 2-3 accumulator piston. Includes steel boost valve and sleeve to replace worn OEM. This is the same kit we use in the Interceptor transmissions. Cost $118.00

Offers 3 levels of Performance:

1. Heavy Duty
2. Street & Strip
3. Full Competition

------------------------------------------------------------------

KIT 2:

#KAOD-E-V. Fits 1991-2002 AODE / 4R70W transmissions, with steel valve. Cost $40.00

This valve body kit deals with these problems:

Soft sloppy 1-2 shifts
Inadequate lube
Overdrive band failure
3rd clutch failure
2nd roller clutch failure
Soft sloppy 3-4 shifts
Converter shudder
New boost valve included to replace
worn OE valve
Just one Superior kit does both the AOD-E and the 4R70W Transmissions.
The AOD-E kit offers regular and heavy-duty applications.
Use of this transmission in police cars many times means come backs due to unit failure. This package was largely designed and developed through field testing on police vehicles.
Included in this kit is a special design Spiral "Plus" ring set. The "New Millenium" two piece design in the AOD-E Shift Correction Package features the Spiral Ring and the G-lock ring, teamed up to withstand testing at over 16,000 RPM on a dynamometer. Even at that high speed the new design did not fail. The New Spiral "Plus" ring set replaces the stock snap ring that often times slings off.

------------------------------------------------------------------

are these kits similar or can they/will they complement each other?

thx

Si

As best as I can tell, all the parts found in kit 2 can be found in kit 1 with other stuff.

kid rock · Jul 17, 2007

ok kool thanks, does it look like a decent kit? ie has anybody used it before?

does anybody have a link to a good online shop that sells transgo shift kits?

si

P.S Dark knight you are up early?

CobraRed_96_GT · Jul 17, 2007

kid rock said:
ok kool thanks, does it look like a decent kit? ie has anybody used it before?

does anybody have a link to a good online shop that sells transgo shift kits?

si

P.S Dark knight you are up early?

Stage II: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AODE...020QQitemZ300116839541QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

CobraRed_96_GT · Jul 17, 2007

This might help you get an idea of where you headed: http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=693684

Dark Knight GT · Jul 17, 2007

kid rock said:
ok kool thanks, does it look like a decent kit? ie has anybody used it before?

does anybody have a link to a good online shop that sells transgo shift kits?

si

P.S Dark knight you are up early?

As best as I can tell, that kit looks good to go. Just remember what I said about line pressure and blocker rings. If the kit has any blocker rings, throw them out, you won't need them. If it asks you do anything to the line pressure in anway don't do it.

I would also recommend that after you install this kit that you get yourself a hand held tuner like the X-cal or something so you can fine tune your shifts if you feel the need, and so you can program your ECU when you do the gear change.

Kilgore Trout · Jul 18, 2007

Get your 4R70W working properly and install a cooler before you start modding it.

kid rock · Jul 19, 2007

a cooler is on order already

just need to get some bits to fix it at the same time, but dirtyd0g is supplying me with the correct prts + shift kit i need!

+rear gear install bits from randy and will have a singing and dnacing tranny!

Si

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