AutoX'ing

crewwolfy · Nov 1, 2005

Looking to do some AutoX'ing and road racing come spring. I'd like to get coilovers, but the selection is pretty limited at the moment. I'd like to avoid spending a good deal on shocks and coils, only to have a few coilover options become available within a couple years.

Are Eibach Pro-Kit coils good for racing? If the ride's pretty comfortable, I'm thinking there'll be some excessive roll. Leaning toward Sportline coils, but would these quickly wear out the stock shocks? If anyone could give their insight, it'd be appreciated.

Big-Foot · Nov 1, 2005

I would make my decision based on which sanctioning body and class you intend on running in when you go "road racing" to determine what is legal...

If you are going to be truly running wheel to wheel - start by gutting the interior and getting some 1-3/4" by .090 DOM steel tubing and bend up a cage for it. Make sure you follow the rules for the sanctioning body and class or you'll find yourself sitting in the stands..

SCCA's "ITE" class is the most liberal, but since it's administered on a Regional basis - there is no rule-book to follow per sei. It is based off of other sanctioning body's rules like NASA etc..

Alec · Nov 1, 2005

Like what was said above the rules, class etc...
Do some break upgrades first, trust me on this.

You will be quite surprised what your vehicle is capable of doing with the stock suspension, so leave the coilover stuff alone until you feel the stock components are limiting you in some way.

http://www.scca.org/

crewwolfy · Nov 1, 2005

Thanks for the advice.

I was definitely going to up the brakes before the power, but I didn't think to do it even before the suspension.

Big-Foot · Nov 1, 2005

Make sure you don't put brakes on it that are not within the class you want to race / compete in. Actually the 2005+ Mustang brakes are essentially the same as the SN95 Cobra brakes. These are dual piston front brakes that were based on the PBR Caliper that was originally made for the C4 Corvette. They are the same calipers that have been used for years in the SCCA's American Sedan class as well as many others.. As soon as you "step up" to the 4 piston Wilwoods, etc - you instantly put your car in a competition class that would also support a number of other engine / transmission / Suspension mods.

What I'm trying to say is that you need to really examine the classes and determine which one fits your needs and budget - then talk to other people competing in these classes ((before)) you start throwing down your heard earned scratch...

Had I not already walked a thousand miles in these shoes - I would not even bother speaking to it...

hubec · Nov 3, 2005

The stock GT brakes are actually very powerfull (just look at how big they are). The problem is the stock pads suck and the stock fluid is worse. Replace those first. Then upgrade the brakes only if needed. And at the risk of doing a rant / flame thing let me just say that coil overs have gotta be the biggest scam in the aftermarket performance industry. The value of coilovers is the adjustability and precision they offer. However they require many many hours of expert setup and testing to get them to the point where their usefull. There are way too many enthusiasts who are spending a couple grand on coilovers, slapping them into the car and suffering horrible suspension as a result.

Tri-Bar · Nov 3, 2005

Give Gound Control a call. They have a Front coil-over kit with a camber plates and a weight jack set up on the rear. It will be ESP legal in Autocrossing and good at the track. They use revalved Koni singals on a custom front strut housing. and revalved rear shocks. I think is going for around $1599.00.
http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/description.php/II=666/CA=96

crewwolfy · Nov 3, 2005

Considering all the adjustments you can make to them, I assumed it would be along those lines. However, if you take the time to fine tune a race suspension setup and a driving-to-and-from-the-race setup, then going back and forth should be reasonably simple, right?

Bullitt · Nov 4, 2005

crewwolfy

i've been autocrossing for over 5 yrs now and been the SCCA nationals 3 times (trophied once!)

if you want to get started autocrossing, the number 1 thing i'd recommend is to STAY IN STOCK! sure it may not seem as exciting, but an FS (your class) car can haul some serious butt. i've seen a lot of people come and go. the ones that stay are the ones who find a class that they're competitive in. that's the key, if you're getting your butt spanked every weekend, what's the point? you'll get tired and quit. FS is a sweet class that your car is competitive in and you will have a blast.

that being said, a number of mods you CAN do in stock will help you out some, ESPECIALLY the shocks.

modifications allowed in stock - front sway bar, shocks (go Koni single adjustable all around, or DA in front and SA in rear), drop in air-filter, cat-back exhaust, and R compound tires (on your choice of wheels that are same size as factory.

number 2 thing i'd recommend is to get as much seat time as possible. your money will be better spent on seat time and going to events than on parts for your car. seriously. i've seen a lot of novices come into the sport, get beat, throw money at the car, get bumped up in classes, and get beat WORSE, then quit. don't do that!!

number 3 thing - run a street tire class for a year or so (STX or the like). you'll learn much better car control and the driving will apply to your day-to-day driving as well. R compounds can mask a lot of mistakes and give you a false illusion to how fast you really are. stick to streets for a while, then make the jump and you won't regret it.

anyways, that's just my experience...

crewwolfy · Nov 4, 2005

Thanks for the insight, Bullitt. Funds are low at the moment, and the stang'll be my daily driver for a while, so I'll be forced to keep my spending at a minimum. I imagine the stock class would be a little easier, as that'll be the area most of the other newbs will be in as well. But yeah, I won't be concerned with winning it all just yet.

I hit up a Mazda Zoom-Zoom event, which let you drive the Miata and the RX-8 in an autocross setup, and it was outrageously fun. I'd wanted to enter the motorsport before that, but the event just increased that desire!

Bullitt said:
crewwolfy
modifications allowed in stock - front sway bar, shocks (go Koni single adjustable all around, or DA in front and SA in rear), drop in air-filter, cat-back exhaust, and R compound tires (on your choice of wheels that are same size as factory.

All these aspects can be modified, and I'll still be considered stock? Along with the Koni's, would lowering coils be allowed?

Bullitt · Nov 4, 2005

those are the parts you can replace for stock class, you can also do brake pads (hawk pads are good) and whatever fluids you want (redline or whatnot). you can add 4point seat belts, but not a harness bar. i think you can do a bolt-in cage, but that's more weight and doesn't really help.

what this does NOT mean is no CAI, no chips, no headers, no springs (this includes modifying stock springs), no camber plates, no poly bushings, no control arms, no shifter, etc etc.

basically in the SCCA, if they don't say you can do it, you can't do it. the upside of this is that in the stock classes there is VERY little if any cheating.

halflife1 · Nov 4, 2005

crewwolfy said:
Looking to do some AutoX'ing and road racing come spring. I'd like to get coilovers, but the selection is pretty limited at the moment. I'd like to avoid spending a good deal on shocks and coils, only to have a few coilover options become available within a couple years.

Are Eibach Pro-Kit coils good for racing? If the ride's pretty comfortable, I'm thinking there'll be some excessive roll. Leaning toward Sportline coils, but would these quickly wear out the stock shocks? If anyone could give their insight, it'd be appreciated.

i went road racing at pocono. did 3 sessions. i have the eibach pro kit on the stock shocks, and it handles awesome, also have steeda front and rear sways.
my brakes where toasted and smoke pouring out of them after each run. after the third run I had 0 brake pad left. I would do the drop springs and upgrade the brakes and wheels, then maybe worry about a more trick coilover. the stock tires and brakes where holding me back the most. definitly bigger brakes is probably the most important upgrade, these cars are heavy and the brakes fade quickly.

rickman · Nov 5, 2005

no better fun than autoxing
View attachment 498543

Quint57 · Nov 5, 2005

Bullitt,

I'm glad you mentioned the mods as I was going to order a CAI. I have been doing some reading and have decided to keep the car stock until we go to a few events first.

Thanks

Tri-Bar · Nov 7, 2005

This what mine looks like around a turn
http://www.pbase.com/bryanh/image/51827223.
http://www.pbase.com/bryanh/image/51827222
http://www.pbase.com/bryanh/image/51827224

The car is very stable,

475lbs front springs,coilover
200lbs rear springs,coilover
Koni Custom front struts (singles).
Koni rear shocks.
Eibach front and rear swaybars.
17x9's Black Bullitt Rims
275-40-17 Kuhmo V710's.
Steeda rear lower billit control arms.(polly bushings) Ground controll Panhard Rod (Polly bushings)

2003gt · Nov 7, 2005

Tri-Bar said:
This what mine looks like around a turn
http://www.pbase.com/bryanh/image/51827223.
http://www.pbase.com/bryanh/image/51827222
http://www.pbase.com/bryanh/image/51827224

The car is very stable,

475lbs front springs,coilover
200lbs rear springs,coilover
Koni Custom front struts (singles).
Koni rear shocks.
Eibach front and rear swaybars.
17x9's Black Bullitt Rims
275-40-17 Kuhmo V710's.
Steeda rear lower billit control arms.(polly bushings) Ground controll Panhard Rod (Polly bushings)

jeas thats an ugly looking color going around those turns !!!!

this ones alot better looking !!

ha ha....joke !! :SNSign:

thats stock racing.....now i have kumho v710's on the stock rims and koni's on the way soon....

but yes, topic starter (forgot who started this topic) stay in stock class, win your stock class constantly, then move on to faster mods, the hardest mod is getting the driver to drive the vehicle

max2000jp · Nov 9, 2005

Tri-Bar said:
This what mine looks like around a turn
http://www.pbase.com/bryanh/image/51827223.
http://www.pbase.com/bryanh/image/51827222
http://www.pbase.com/bryanh/image/51827224

The car is very stable,

475lbs front springs,coilover
200lbs rear springs,coilover
Koni Custom front struts (singles).
Koni rear shocks.
Eibach front and rear swaybars.
17x9's Black Bullitt Rims
275-40-17 Kuhmo V710's.
Steeda rear lower billit control arms.(polly bushings) Ground controll Panhard Rod (Polly bushings)

I am assuming you have the GC Coilover kit. How do you like it? I was looking at Eibach sways as well. Make a big difference?

Tri-Bar · Nov 10, 2005

I like the set up very well,I like the way they did very nice job with the fronts. its a Cartridge that screws into a custom strut housing.The camber plate does only that . Camber. you dont really need a lot of caster with this car. The rear on mine is also coilover. I used the Maximin Motorsports rear kit for DA's, it all bolted in real easy. I didnt use the GC rear set up that came with the kit but a short time. it works ,It just doesnt lower the car enough. I really like the Eibach sways, 1' 3/8" 3 way adjustable in the front and a 24mm rear bar, its a good balance. I set the front in the middle hole. Turn is is very fast. the rear follows around nicely. can throttle oversteer at any time you wish.

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