avereage HP from a 347?

SWYZ721 · Sep 11, 2005

How come Cheby's 350 cubes can pretty easily reach 400WHP?

5spd GT · Sep 11, 2005

nmcgrawj said:
Im not saying thats asking for too much. I simply said that the professional we all trust says it can be done. So it can. Plain and simple. You want to find out how? Call Ed.

Like i said before...there is a bigger world outside of these forums where power levels are reached that we never hear about. But guess who does? Ed. So if you want to know HOW someone did it...thats one thing. But questioning if it can be done is just annoying. Going on and on and on about "streetable" is annoying. You only set the definition about "Streetable" for yourself, and i think we all know what it is by now. So leave it be.

So going on and on about it being streetable is annoying...almost as annoying as not seeing any 400rwhp daily driver/street cars. Any accessories at all?

I think streetable is something that doesn't become "cumbersome" in traffic. Low rpm bucking is gone, nice torque curve...no peaky numbers or bias to one side of the powerband. Reliable. Can still run powersteering/air conditioning in a hotter climate if need be and not deleted for power purposes. No "drag setups" in suspension that effects regular street driving safely. That about sums it up. Easy stuff...

But if one is to put down the power acheived by a particular combo put down what got him there...and some of you guys know who I'm talking about.

When a daily driver thread starter ask what is the most possible rwhp for a 302 that you can get and not experience driveability problems...I just don't see it practical to tell someone that 300rwhp combo's are out and 380rwhp is in when their is huge "daily driver" differences between the combos as listed above for example.

If your going to post what numbers someone got...but down the info that got him there. Not that "so and so" got 365rwhp out of his 302 so you could in your daily driver. Put what got him there. If the 365rwhp guy had a 11:25:1 compression and a/c and powersteering deleted...do you really think it is practical for the daily driver to not know that. He will wonder why he hit 305rwhp instead of 365rwhp. All because someone got convienent amnesia by just posting numbers instead of combos. Right?

" "

walker95svt · Sep 11, 2005

347 RWHP numbers

I do know a guy (not verified, but a reliable, honest guy) who claims his e-cam'd, AFR 185'd 347 makes 374 at the wheels on a dynojet. I don't know. I see a lot of variance in what I'm told. I do know what thing though, THE MAGAZINES ARE FULL OF IT!!!!! My exact combo, a 8.5:1 331 with AFR 185s and similar cam, was claimed by MM&FF to make 331 HP at the flywheel. There's NO WAY IN HELL. If that combo was realistic, then I should be able to make near 700hp on pump gas with boost. I DON"T THINK SO!! I can only wish.

The extremely competent head tuner at dallas mustang told me that most 331/347 combos make between 290-330 at the wheels. You gotta remember it's a mustang dyno though, therefore making what appears to be less power.

I think people are misguided by the magazines about how much power a windsor small block can make.

I agree with those who say 400hp is a result of careful parts selection and is rarer than it may seem.

nmcgrawj · Sep 11, 2005

5spd GT said:
So going on and on about it being streetable is annoying...almost as annoying as not seeing any 400rwhp daily driver/street cars. Any accessories at all?

Call Ed.

Oh by the way...like i have tried to get across to you. SOME GUYS will have a daily driver with no accessories. If you live in michigan...you dont need a/c and if you are strong enough power steering wont be missed THAT much. Its up to the driver...not you. There is no problem with wanting details, but if you want examples of 400rwhp cars, be quiet and call Ed.

Redsnk95 · Sep 11, 2005

walker95svt said:
I do know a guy (not verified, but a reliable, honest guy) who claims his e-cam'd, AFR 185'd 347 makes 374 at the wheels on a dynojet. I don't know. I see a lot of variance in what I'm told. I do know what thing though, THE MAGAZINES ARE FULL OF IT!!!!! My exact combo, a 8.5:1 331 with AFR 185s and similar cam, was claimed by MM&FF to make 331 HP at the flywheel. There's NO WAY IN HELL. If that combo was realistic, then I should be able to make near 700hp on pump gas with boost. I DON"T THINK SO!! I can only wish.

The extremely competent head tuner at dallas mustang told me that most 331/347 combos make between 290-330 at the wheels. You gotta remember it's a mustang dyno though, therefore making what appears to be less power.

I think people are misguided by the magazines about how much power a windsor small block can make.

I agree with those who say 400hp is a result of careful parts selection and is rarer than it may seem.

Speaking towards your motor with boost. My 302 (8.7:1) w/ AFR 185s, E303 cam, TFS R intake, T-trim @ 15lbs of boost, pump gas..made 598rwhp. By my calculations that would be pretty close to 700 flywheel hp on pump gas.

Troy

Lyncher · Sep 11, 2005

SWYZ721 said:
How come Cheby's 350 cubes can pretty easily reach 400WHP?

...the same reason 351s reach 400whp pretty easily...MORE CUBES

5spd GT · Sep 11, 2005

nmcgrawj said:
Call Ed.

Oh by the way...like i have tried to get across to you. SOME GUYS will have a daily driver with no accessories. If you live in michigan...you dont need a/c and if you are strong enough power steering wont be missed THAT much. Its up to the driver...not you. There is no problem with wanting details, but if you want examples of 400rwhp cars, be quiet and call Ed.

Did you not see what I put about the air conditioning? I put "in a hotter climate if need be" Nice catch...

Now, I am plenty strong enough to turn a non-power steered car. I work-out on a regular basis and am 6ft. 3in. 205lbs. I got this I still like power steering.

Now what about the smog pump? Don't some people like to pass smog easier?

Any others you want to try to challenge?

I'm tired of people claiming 400rwhp cars and how you can do it with the "right parts" but they don't list them or have any links or back-up to what their saying. Alls they can do is say "call Ed" If it is so "easy" or common for a daily driven car...the let's see them. Shouldn't be that problem...I even tried doing a search and still no luck. Bummer

I simply state that if your going to post your's or someone's numbers and they seem "up there" then post how they got it. That way the actual question asker can decide if deleting or "bumping" up something is going to be worth it to them...

"Is that too hard to ask"?

5spd GT · Sep 11, 2005

Lyncher said:
...the same reason 351s reach 400whp pretty easily...MORE CUBES

What I think what he is trying to get at is that a 347 is only 3cu. inch less than a 350 so why is it "easier" for a 350 to get 400rwhp with a better ratio to get there than a 347. I hope that made sense?

walker95svt - Post more than that...how is the tune on the car? timing? etc...just because you didnt' get what the magazine got doesn't mean they lied? Is your tune/builder the same? Very unlikely to get all the variables equal. A magazine isn't just going to flat out lie...that wouldn't be good for them in court

nmcgrawj · Sep 11, 2005

5spd GT said:
Alls they can do is say "call Ed" If it is so "easy" or common for a daily driven car...the let's see them. Shouldn't be that problem...I even tried doing a search and still no luck. Bummer

Dont take stuff so personal All i was trying to say is that some people have a different opinion of a street driven combo.

So i guess this extends out to Ed C. too right since he didnt post the combo...just that it COULD be done. If Ed C. saying it can be done isnt enough than i dont know what is.

5spd GT · Sep 11, 2005

nmcgrawj said:
Dont take stuff so personal All i was trying to say is that some people have a different opinion of a street driven combo.

So i guess this extends out to Ed C. too right since he didnt post the combo...just that it COULD be done. If Ed C. saying it can be done isnt enough than i dont know what is.

Personal? Lol...trust me...I'm not

My comments are not made to Ed at all. You know who I'm talking about but I don't like to "call out" people without them being present at the time. Got me?

I want people to back up what their saying (Ed has did enough)...like I said, you know who I'm talking about...

Just when you get certain numbers post up the real combo...compression/accessory deletion/h/c/i/etc...etc.

94 SVT cobra · Sep 11, 2005

in all fairness, as the orginal poster of this thread. i should metion that personally this car isnt my daily driver, this car is my "Scare the **** out of the passenger car". i mean i suppose it could be a daily driver but with todays gas prices itd be better to not, unless your rich then it doesnt matter. As for that combo on thats guys car, i envy ever mod you have on that car its insane.

95Vert · Sep 11, 2005

walker95svt said:
I do know a guy (not verified, but a reliable, honest guy) who claims his e-cam'd, AFR 185'd 347 makes 374 at the wheels on a dynojet. I don't know. I see a lot of variance in what I'm told. I do know what thing though, THE MAGAZINES ARE FULL OF IT!!!!! My exact combo, a 8.5:1 331 with AFR 185s and similar cam, was claimed by MM&FF to make 331 HP at the flywheel. There's NO WAY IN HELL. If that combo was realistic, then I should be able to make near 700hp on pump gas with boost. I DON"T THINK SO!! I can only wish.

The extremely competent head tuner at dallas mustang told me that most 331/347 combos make between 290-330 at the wheels. You gotta remember it's a mustang dyno though, therefore making what appears to be less power.

I think people are misguided by the magazines about how much power a windsor small block can make.

I agree with those who say 400hp is a result of careful parts selection and is rarer than it may seem.

Walker, keep in mind that 331 fwhp, is between 290 and 330 rwhp. There's some calculations involved, I don't have it at this time but I'll post it up tomorrow.

5-spd GT, I know what you mean about 400rwhp 347 stroker are being hard to find and what has to be done to get it there, but I don't doubt it. I really
hope somone would post a combo making that power so we can see if it can be done. I'll be gettin in touch with Ed to see if it can be done, and if it can, I want to know how cause I wouldn't mind a combo like that.

VibrantRedGT · Sep 11, 2005

5spd and nm, the bickering is annoying. Please take it to PM.

SWYZ721 · Sep 11, 2005

5spd GT said:
What I think what he is trying to get at is that a 347 is only 3cu. inch less than a 350 so why is it "easier" for a 350 to get 400rwhp with a better ratio to get there than a 347. I hope that made sense?

Exactly, I though it was implied that we were speaking of 347s, but i guess others aren't to quick on the up-take and fords aren't too quick on the in-take

can anyone answer my question?

5spd GT · Sep 11, 2005

95Vert said:
5-spd GT, I know what you mean about 400rwhp 347 stroker are being hard to find and what has to be done to get it there, but I don't doubt it. I really
hope somone would post a combo making that power so we can see if it can be done. I'll be gettin in touch with Ed to see if it can be done, and if it can, I want to know how cause I wouldn't mind a combo like that.

Me and Nate were reffering to another thread (about 302's and 400rwhp)...I know 347's can do it but again they aren't as common as some on here say to go back to your point but oh yeah they exist

SWYz21 - I doubt 400rwhp is just real common on "350's" and is probably implied like "347's can easily make 400rwhp". Same statements being exagerated. Now the ls1's (346) can hit 400rwhp with a nice cam/heads package fairly easily. So I don't know

SWYZ721 · Sep 11, 2005

5spd GT said:
Me and Nate were reffering to another thread (about 302's and 400rwhp)...I know 347's can do it but again they aren't as common as some on here say to go back to your point but oh yeah they exist

SWYz21 - I doubt 400rwhp is just real common on "350's" and is probably implied like "347's can easily make 400rwhp". Same statements being exagerated. Now the ls1's (346) can hit 400rwhp with a nice cam/heads package fairly easily. So I don't know

sorry, thats what I meant, L-S/T-1s but I should have been more specific, is this due to their intake mani, ie like the new 3V motors, and the fact that the LS1 revs much higher?

It seems chevy was doin something right with their intake manis as now Fords look very similar, however, they STAY pushrod while ford is quad-cammin' now they need to: quad cam, steal Cheby's intake, and up the displacement to 5.4 for a bad as cobra motor, then pour on the boost.

kck6894 · Sep 11, 2005

Grn92LX said:
Nice combination! Thats N-111 hi rev cam is a big cam. Do your brakes work good? Do you mind posting your dyno graph? I'd expect a little more from that combo though. Who ported the heads? This guy is making the same power with a smaller N-91 hi rev cam with a near identicle combo, 347- afm ported TW, ported victor 5.0, N-91, bassani 1 5/8-1 3/4 longtubes.

http://www.andersonfordmotorsport.com/cars/AlongandDpatz.htm

Yeah the N-111 cam is big and I would like to go bigger and rev the engine a little higher I think. One interesting thing about it though it that AFM says that cam will build power to 6800 RPM and it does exactly that. It works my breaks find now. I actually had to add a vacuum pump when I first put it on cuz my power breaks didn't work, but the other day at the track I melted a hole in one of the lines and by-passed the vacuum pump and they work great now.

I had help from my engine builder with my heads and I think they are definately holding my back. I am interested in doing something different to get a little more power out of them.

I will see if I can get a dyno sheet scanned and uploaded.

kck6894 · Sep 11, 2005

94GTLaserRC said:
Hey, Awesome mods...Take everything after my initials (RC), Copy it, and paste it on your sig page...then you will be set... (I made it short so you can keep the "DONT BUY SPEC CLUTCH" along with what I made for you.

RC

Thanks RC!

5spd GT · Sep 11, 2005

SWYZ721 said:
sorry, thats what I meant, L-S/T-1s but I should have been more specific, is this due to their intake mani, ie like the new 3V motors, and the fact that the LS1 revs much higher?

It seems chevy was doin something right with their intake manis as now Fords look very similar, however, they STAY pushrod while ford is quad-cammin' now they need to: quad cam, steal Cheby's intake, and up the displacement to 5.4 for a bad as cobra motor, then pour on the boost.

An ls1 revs to around 5800rpm I believe when stock for the redline. They make nice power stock. With the addition of a spring upgrade (with heads) and a cam they rev well into the 6,000's...so that could have something to do with it. They can make good power. I know the ls6 intakes (on 00's and up) are pretty good intakes. They came on the 01+ z06's.

Now the new 7.0L ls7 zo6 is a nice pushrod

Grn92LX · Sep 11, 2005

kck6894 said:
Yeah the N-111 cam is big and I would like to go bigger and rev the engine a little higher I think. One interesting thing about it though it that AFM says that cam will build power to 6800 RPM and it does exactly that. It works my breaks find now. I actually had to add a vacuum pump when I first put it on cuz my power breaks didn't work, but the other day at the track I melted a hole in one of the lines and by-passed the vacuum pump and they work great now.

I had help from my engine builder with my heads and I think they are definately holding my back. I am interested in doing something different to get a little more power out of them.

I will see if I can get a dyno sheet scanned and uploaded.

I'm really interested in seeing your graph. Thats odd about the melted vacuum cannister line helping your brakes. How much higher are you wanting to rev? Have you considered a box intake? Here is what Rick from AFM did with a combo like yours but with an N-113 cam and a bit more porting on the TW heads. http://www.andersonfordmotorsport.com/cars/HiRev347.html

I have seen a dyno graph of a 331 with an N-111 cam and ported canfield heads, it was making power to around 7500 rpm. It was holding 400rwhp to near 8000 rpm. Peaked at 433rwhp.

avereage HP from a 347?

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