avereage HP from a 347?

Car Nut · Sep 11, 2005

I'm looking at a 347 too with quality parts, except that I have to pay attention to emissions:

CHP 347-e (emissions legal)
Cam is moderate, not mild or wild
Edelbrock RPM II intake
Edelbrock RPM heads (or Performer heads, depending on emissions)
Upgraded TB and MAF
Upgraded Fuel Injectors per CHP recommendation

Vic Edelbrock's daughter has a 94 GT with the same motor mentioned above (except for using an RPM intake) and I believe she dyno'd at about 340rwhp with no accessories deleted.

Shouldn't I have a pretty good setup since the whole engine will be new, except for some accessories like A/C, smog, etc. Getting a new block, internals, intake, heads, and cam that are considered quality should result in good power, right? Hopefully, I can squeeze 350hp out of the rear wheels or at least pretty close.

There seems to be a lot of discrepancy here, because there is some debate about which parts are new, quality, old, or subpar.

Grn92LX · Sep 11, 2005

Car nut, 350+ rwhp will be cake walk if the cam is right. Don't use a cam from chp, use a custom. Use the 2.02 edelbrock rpm heads with good valve springs to match the cam. Shoot for at least 10.5:1 compression. The heads may need to be milled. 75mm tb with rpm II inlet opened up to match. 30lb injectors for this car. Go wity longtubes, but i'm guessing you wanna see that catted x pipe? If so, use 1 3/4" shortys, but the longtubes will make more. Deleting accessories like a/c and smog are done to reduce weight and clutter.

94GTLaserRC · Sep 11, 2005

kck6894 said:
Thanks RC!

You took the colors out!
RC

bubba-dough · Sep 11, 2005

Grn92LX said:
Car nut, 350+ rwhp will be cake walk if the cam is right. Don't use a cam from chp, use a custom. Use the 2.02 edelbrock rpm heads with good valve springs to match the cam. Shoot for at least 10.5:1 compression. The heads may need to be milled. 75mm tb with rpm II inlet opened up to match. 30lb injectors for this car. Go wity longtubes, but i'm guessing you wanna see that catted x pipe? If so, use 1 3/4" shortys, but the longtubes will make more. Deleting accessories like a/c and smog are done to reduce weight and clutter.

I agree. Also when I bought my 347 from CHP I asked about cams and they straight up told me not to use one of theirs, get a custom. I was on a budget so I went with a X303. I know the Compression of the 347 I got from CHP was 10:1 w/61 cc head. I am running 11:1.

5spd GT · Sep 12, 2005

Grn92LX said:
Deleting accessories like a/c and smog are done to reduce weight and clutter.

Ooppsss...your forgot one.

Also is less parasitic loss on the crank which equates to more power.

Grn92LX · Sep 12, 2005

A/c is a free wheeling pulley when its off, smog isn't worth any measurable power either. Between the 2, I doubt you'd see 2hp on a chassis dyno. Lets see some links showing the gains.

Heres a link from fordmuscle.com showing zero gain with a short belt bypassing the smog (as we all know) and a 1.5mph gain bypassing smog and power steering (about 10hp or so)

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/02/shortbelt/index.shtml

94GTLaserRC · Sep 12, 2005

bubba-dough said:
I agree. Also when I bought my 347 from CHP I asked about cams and they straight up told me not to use one of theirs, get a custom. I was on a budget so I went with a X303. I know the Compression of the 347 I got from CHP was 10:1 w/61 cc head. I am running 11:1.

And CHP said that if they build an engine for you, they will allow you to send them the cam that you choose, installed at no "extra" charge. I think they give you $100 or so credit on theirs...not great, but still worth the change.

RC

kck6894 · Sep 12, 2005

94GTLaserRC said:
You took the colors out!
RC

Might take away from the spec clutch red!! Don't want anyone to miss my point.

kck6894 · Sep 12, 2005

Grn92LX said:
I'm really interested in seeing your graph. Thats odd about the melted vacuum cannister line helping your brakes. How much higher are you wanting to rev? Have you considered a box intake? Here is what Rick from AFM did with a combo like yours but with an N-113 cam and a bit more porting on the TW heads. http://www.andersonfordmotorsport.com/cars/HiRev347.html

I have seen a dyno graph of a 331 with an N-111 cam and ported canfield heads, it was making power to around 7500 rpm. It was holding 400rwhp to near 8000 rpm. Peaked at 433rwhp.

This looks like more fun!! http://www.the-arnolds.net/Cobra/

Yes I have considered switching to a different intake. I have lots of things to decide this winter!!

5spd GT · Sep 12, 2005

Grn92LX said:
A/c is a free wheeling pulley when its off, smog isn't worth any measurable power either. Between the 2, I doubt you'd see 2hp on a chassis dyno. Lets see some links showing the gains.

Heres a link from fordmuscle.com showing zero gain with a short belt bypassing the smog (as we all know) and a 1.5mph gain bypassing smog and power steering (about 10hp or so)

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/02/shortbelt/index.shtml

10hp is not 1.5mph. Closer to 15hp. Bad math

Have you ever spun over the compressor with the belt off...do you not feel that drag? I believe it was 95snoozer that got 5rwhp across the board with the deletion/bypass. Again, ever spun a smog pump with the belt off? Do you not feel that drag?

I believe it is a 18-22% accessory loss...in fact actually more if I recall from all hooked up to not. I would love for you to make a thread on this over on the corral You will see gains...promise Ouch. Why do you think on engine dynos the numbers are usually "outrageously" high...oh wait...could that be because their is less drag from accessories
Do you not ever notice the "higher horsepower" numbers with cars that are peaky and delete accessories or bypass them.

My buddy in a 93lx (more draggy setup) deleted the power steering/smog/a/c and he said he could definetly feel the difference for sure on the less drag/weight...he is now selling the car...if I had money I would take it to play with.

It's just your excuse...just 2hp?... Funny stuff.

Killercanary · Sep 12, 2005

5spd GT- dude, give it up. You know how much I drag raced my car and how concistent I am. I gained NOTHING by bypassing the smog pump. NOTHING, I lost ~10lbs with deleting the pump but I gained NOTHING at the track, hence there was NO power to be gained. I also run underdrive pulleys on my car which at the time I put them on took me from a 14.9 at 91.5mph to a 14.6 at 94.89, so they obviously free'd up some ponies. My buddy GMKILLR who also drag races as much if not more than I did at the time dyno's his car 94 cobra with a shortbelt, and the MAX he gained a 3-5hp, but he gained it EVERYWHERE. A 1.5mph gain DOES NOT necessarily mean a gain of 15hp. This is generally a good rule of thumb, UNLESS a few HP are gained throughout the entire RPM band as in the case of GMKILLR. I have run my car and with a shortbelt (bypassing the AC and PS, in addition to the smog pump which is always bypassed) and it is worth a consistent 1.5mph.

Grn92LX · Sep 12, 2005

kck6894 said:
This looks like more fun!! http://www.the-arnolds.net/Cobra/

Yes I have considered switching to a different intake. I have lots of things to decide this winter!!

Hell yeah that looks like fun! I have that guys site saved to my favorites, extremely impressive.

Paul, nice to see someone has common sense You know he just likes to argue, you've seen it many times.

nmcgrawj · Sep 12, 2005

Killercanary said:
5spd GT- dude, give it up.

Dont worry Paul he wont. You can say all you want...Ed C. can even come in and say his piece and he still wants more.

kck6894 · Sep 12, 2005

Grn92LX said:
Hell yeah that looks like fun! I have that guys site saved to my favorites, extremely impressive.

I am not sure all the low end he lost was worth the high end he gained but still and impressive setup!

Redsnk95 · Sep 12, 2005

marc's new 347 is going to be impressive, now if his tranny will hold up to that 547rwhp 347 NA motor.

Troy

walker95svt · Sep 12, 2005

bickering

why does everything have to turn into an argument? do you guys go around ganging up on people? Do you two have JOBS? You guys know who I'm talking about..... a one "perfect" convertible guy, and grn92lx......

Grn92LX · Sep 12, 2005

Looks like you're doing what you're complaining about, huh

I have a full time job and i'm sure "perfect" Paul does as well. Don't forget 5spd gt too, he's got a job as well. Since you asked, i'm a union electrical worker

VibrantRedGT · Sep 12, 2005

walker95svt said:
why does everything have to turn into an argument? do you guys go around ganging up on people? Do you two have JOBS? You guys know who I'm talking about..... a one "perfect" convertible guy, and grn92lx......

The main reason is your in a public forum with thousands of personalities. Bickering about who's right will occasionally break out, its normal in every forum.

(Stands Up)
My name is Joe, I'm in the Auto Industry and work for the Largest Remanfacture of Auto Parts in the World, Cardone Industries (5000 employees) www.cardone.com (sales/marketing). We have over 4 million sq ft. of remanufacturing and distribution space. Have warehouses in Philadelphia (main), LA and overseas in Brussels. Walker what do you do?

walker95svt · Sep 12, 2005

I didn't say I had a problem with 5spdgt..... he seems alright and makes logical points.........

walker95svt · Sep 12, 2005

I didn't mean to offend anyone but those two. actually, I am the HEAD swing shift french fry maker at Mcdonalds.

avereage HP from a 347?

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