Basic Clutch/T5 Questions

[94-302-vert]

OK, I need a clutch (barely made it onto the ramps yesterday to do my pulleys and WP ) and I also noticed that the output shaft on my trans has about 1/8" of play in it when I move the D/S by hand. BUT the trans does not grind and I do not know if my noise problems since the gears are related to the trans at all or not. I am on a tight butget (don't want to spend any more than I should and amount of labor to change later will be a guiding factor).

So I need advice. What should I do / change / need while the car is in the air?

This is what I know or think I know:

1. Flywheel, Needs to be replaced or resurfaced. I have heard that the factory nodular unit should not be resurfaced. How much is resurfacing and is it OK to do as I know I can get a new nodular for $100.

2. Clutch, Need a full Kit. I am planning FMS HD clutch kit as my stang is will stay basically stock for a while. Unless there is another clutch for under $200 or so that is worthy.

3. TOB: Should I spend the extra $40 for a new ford TO bearing?

4. Pivot ball for the clutch arm. The car has 131k miles and everything related to this message is stock. Do you change it when you are doing this?

5. TOB retainer sleeve, based on what I have read the 94-95 cars use a steel sleeve already right? So if needed is the best place to get one my local ford dealer? I know I have seen them at a few placed for $49 (D&D being one place)

6. T5 rebuild kit: The trans is not grinding gears and the car does not make any noise below 70 mph. Right now above 70 I do not know if it is d/s, rearend, or trans related (i know, i know)... But as you can see above the trans output has some play in it. Should I go into the trans or just be willing to re-drop it later for a rebuild if need be? Maybe jsut get a bearing kit and change the bearing but not the synchros? Best places for these kits?

7. Clutch cable. Right now there is a ton of play in my clutch cable and it is hard to push. I am thinking jsut getting a cable and then do a quadrant and adjsuter later. Does this make sense or am I risking the integrity of my new clutch by doing this?

8. anything else?

Thanks as always guys. I'll prbably be doing this as a way of being patriotic on the July 4th weekend.

Chris

 

[Steeda90GT]

1. If you can afford the extra $60, get a new flywheel.

2. I recommend the King Cobra for $169, same as HD but much better pedal feel.

3. Not sure what comes in FORD Racing King Cobra kit, but you defintely dont want a crappy TOB

4. Not sure

5. We have steel ones, so chances are yours is fine. The aluminum fox body ones used to wapr and get scored cause TOB failure early.

6. If it's not grinding, and if it shifts fine then just leave it alone. Even if you blow your tranny 6 months down the line it's fairly easy to remove (while keeping your nice new clutch assembly together and untouched.)

7. Out of anything on your list, I recommend this the most (well maybe next to resurfacing the flywheel). Just get a full kit (quadrant, cable, adjuster) most can be had for well under $100 and is pretty much a "must have"

8. Rear main seal and Pilot bearing (while you're in there)

 

[Black95GTS]

In terms of King Cobra vs. FMS HD... the HD is actually a stronger clutch by a fairly large margin. However, the pedal feel is stiffer.

A guy named Don Walsh over at D and D designed both the king cobra and fms hd clutch in the 80s. I actually talked to Don (at Paul aka Killercanary aka MR2 Spider lover's suggestion) and he told me the fms hd is 5 percent harder to push down.

He suggested that if I could deal with that then definately buy the HD over the King Cobra.

Now our stock clutch quadrants are kinda crappy and a lot people replace these with aluminum or steel. I did not and haven't had a bad experience.

One thing you DON'T want to do is buy an aftermarket clutch cable. You can search the forums and read all about Steeda cables snapping. Spend the extra money and get a quality FoMoCo cable.

good luck,

Adam

 

[94-302-vert]

For #6 does this sound right though??? 1/8" of play with the D/S installed???

This recent finding has me worried...

Chris

 

[86bluecobra]

3. always a good idea to replace the T.O.B. when replacing clutch
4. inspect it for wear. if there are no major wear grooves dont worry bout replacing.
6. if it ain't broke don't fix it.
7. clutch cable replacement is a good idea if you have no adjustment left.

 

[5spd GT]

The King Cobra is a better clutch for the money IMO. It has a softer pedal feel and it holds the same amount of power.

It is much softer than 5%...have you ever drove/sat in both equipped cars...well I have...there is a very noticeable difference. Also ask who has swapped from a HD to a KC and you will see it is more than 5%.

The extra $20 bucks on a King Cobra for a softer/better feeling pedal is worth it to me.

94-302-vert:

Look at the top of the 94/95 Forum for the Sticky entitled "Official How To Thread". I have a post in it about a clutch install/swap. It should help you out

Don't worry about the pivot ball unless it has obvious damage. You'll be fine.

The King Cobra kit I bought and friend bought from summit came with the TOB with it already. It is a good TOB.

Good Luck!

 

[94-302-vert]

What mustang tranny's will work in our cars relatively painlessly...

i.e. will a t56 from a newer 4.6l mustang work with a new bell housing or our adapter plate... etc.

Just trying to think ahead in case my t5 needs a rebuild...

Chris

 

[WhiteDevil]

Our T-5s have aluminum bearing retainers. You should upgrade to a steel one.

 

[mo_dingo]

things. Make sure you replace your rear main seal & pilot bearing, even if they aren't leaking. Trust me, you will regret it later when it starts to leak and you blow your brand new clutch from oil getting all over it.

when you install the new clutch set, make sure you put a healthy amount of wheel bearing grease on the side of the TOB that touches the pressure plate fingers. This will stop future TOB problems. Also, remember to heavily grease the pivot ball.

Follow the haynes manual and you should be good.

If the flywheel is shiny, but no major defects, keep the stock flywheel and have it resurfaced. If it has major wear and indentations, replace it.

Let the trans fluid drain out of the tailshaft and change the fluid while you are there. The t-5's use ATF.
Scott

 

[95Cobra302]

You say that ur car is going to be relatively stock for awhile so why would u need to go for the Ford HD clutch?? I have had both and the king cobra is sooooo much better, trust me!!! I have had no problems or sounds with the TOB with my king cobra kits. Hope this helps

 

[5spd GT]

You say that ur car is going to be relatively stock for awhile so why would u need to go for the Ford HD clutch?? I have had both and the king cobra is sooooo much better, trust me!!! I have had no problems or sounds with the TOB with my king cobra kits. Hope this helps

Exactly...this is what I keep stating...because I'm (along with my buddies) one of those "been there done that" clutch guys when comparing the HD vs. the KC. The HD holds the same amount of power...the KC has a better pedal feel though.

To the original poster...if your rear main seal is not leaking...I'm one of those that says don't touch it if that is the case.

 

[94-302-vert]

I think i want the HD clutch because i like the heavier clutch pedal. Again all personal prefereance.

OK sounds like I more or less had it planned out. But I am planning to pick up all the parts ahead of time, or schedule the machining of the flywheel ahead of time. So new flywheel or resurface? This car has the original clutch...

Chris

 

[5spd GT]

You'll be fine with a resurfacing...but if you want a stock replacement flywheel (I have did both options and they worked out fine)...here is the part #: 397-M-6375-B302

The King Cobra has a heavier pedal than stock...the HD is just overkill IMO for a clutch that holds the same amount of power. That whole "the king cobra isn't worth it" is just bologna and has no real basis.

 

[Steeda90GT]

To the original poster...if your rear main seal is not leaking...I'm one of those that says don't touch it if that is the case.

Why should he not replace it regardless? The part is only $15, and is extremely easy to do once everything is out of the way. It would suck to keep the original rear main seal in there, then have it start to leak 10,000 miles later and destroy a brand new clutch. You would have to do the job over all for a $15 part..

 

[5spd GT]

Why should he not replace it regardless? The part is only $15, and is extremely easy to do once everything is out of the way. It would suck to keep the original rear main seal in there, then have it start to leak 10,000 miles later and destroy a brand new clutch. You would have to do the job over all for a $15 part..

Because if he replaced it (wrong) it would leak and he would have to do it all over again. Either way...I say play it safe and if it is not leaking now it isn't just going to blow all over the place after 10k. It is time to be practical...

A rear main seal makes it pretty hard to get to the clutch. It leaks from the backside of the flywheel and gravity pulls it to the ground. I have lots of experience with these leakers and clutch swaps.

I say keep it in if it is not leaking. Play it safe...no chance needed...

That is why.

 

[Black95GTS]

You'll be fine with a resurfacing...but if you want a stock replacement flywheel (I have did both options and they worked out fine)...here is the part #: 397-M-6375-B302

The King Cobra has a heavier pedal than stock...the HD is just overkill IMO for a clutch that holds the same amount of power. That whole "the king cobra isn't worth it" is just bologna and has no real basis.

No offense, but I don't think you read my post. I talked to Don Walsh, the principle design engineer of both these clutches. He told me the FMS HD is stronger and he recommended it over the King Cobra. This is not "bologna," its from the mouth of the man who designed both of the products. I consider that plenty of basis; he talked me out of the King Cobra which I was all set to buy.

If you don't believe me, call Don Walsh Sr. up at D & D Performance.
http://www.ddperformance.com/

Adam

 

[5spd GT]

No offense, but I don't think you read my post. I talked to Don Walsh, the principle design engineer of both these clutches. He told me the FMS HD is stronger and he recommended it over the King Cobra. This is not "bologna," its from the mouth of the man who designed both of the products. I consider that plenty of basis; he talked me out of the King Cobra which I was all set to buy.

If you don't believe me, call Don Walsh Sr. up at D & D Performance.
http://www.ddperformance.com/

Adam

I read the post...and was posting to killercanary's "basis" of why not to get the King Cobra. He talked with Don Walsh as well.

If you have ever drove both or even sat in them for that matter...you will see there is MUCH more than 5% difference in pedal effort. I can't believe that is even said. Even if you listen to the "facts" that killercanary (paul) said about how the FMS HD takes 50ft. lbs to depress and the King Cobra takes 40ft. lbs to depress that is a 20% difference. Not near 5%. That is quite substancial. So it appears ya'll talked to two different "Dons". Supposedly both came from him.

Do you think one man designs a clutch? Nope...many others are involved in the process. For all you know he could have been in on a meeting to help make the clutch???

I have had my dealings with D&D when I bought a cobra disc from them...phone call and all. Still doesn't take away from the real difference between the KC/HD clutches. The King Cobra is my choice. Just read the "personals" from those who have had both. It becomes simply clear then.

KC all the way over HD if you don't mind spending a measily $20 bucks (even nothing for a poor college kid like me) to get a better manners clutch for my daily driver.

www.buyfordracing.com sells them cheap.

Again trust me...there is more than 5% difference. Own both...and know both

 

[slidewayz94]

I dislike the king cobra I went thru 2 in less than 35,000.

 

[5spd GT]

I dislike the king cobra I went thru 2 in less than 35,000.

By looking at your signature could that be because of the nitrous usage or the way you drive. My guess is the power it had to hold (depending on how many times you used it) and under what traction conditions you had...

Why buy the same clutch again if the first one couldn't hold your power??? Time to upgrade to something stouter.

The KC/HD clutches only hold 30% more power than stock...