Beggars can't be choosers...

Shirley · Sep 29, 2005

Probably like 50-60% of us in here are on a budget, including yours truly. I was thinking whether I should save up for a kenne bell whipplecharger and 4.10 gears w/ 31 spline c-clip eliminated axles and detroit locker, or a h/c/i combo. I still need to buy new shocks and struts as well. For right now I would be looking for 350-400 rwhp/torque. Daily driven. What would be cheaper? What would be more effective? I guess I'm gonna need a new torque converter, fluid cooler, and valvebody too huh? I need money. Lots of money. :damnit:

90mustangGT · Sep 29, 2005

Why whipple/kenn bell? Vortec/Paxton will make more power and is cheaper.

Shirley · Sep 30, 2005

i just heard that the whipple is great for autos

stangbear427 · Sep 30, 2005

I just read an article awhile ago about c-clip eliminators on daily driven cars. In a nutshell, don't do it. I don't remember why... I'll see if I can find it. Something about them wearing out really fast, only designed for a couple thousand miles. C-clips almost never break, and there are better insurance methods. Unless you're car only ever sees track duty...

Blk91stang · Sep 30, 2005

Call up strange for the rear. They make 31 spline axles with C-Clip. Don't use c-clip eliminators for the street. Although, I think Strange does make a different style C-Clip eliminator that can be used for the street if you really want to get rid of them(you won't break 31-spline c-clip axles).

88gt · Sep 30, 2005

stangbear427 said:
I just read an article awhile ago about c-clip eliminators on daily driven cars. In a nutshell, don't do it. I don't remember why... I'll see if I can find it. Something about them wearing out really fast, only designed for a couple thousand miles. C-clips almost never break, and there are better insurance methods. Unless you're car only ever sees track duty...

Not be arguementitive, but, if rears w/o c-clips (pressed-on bearings at the axle flanges) is a bad idea....why are there so many 9 inch rears out there on daily driven cars? need more input please?

Blakthorn · Sep 30, 2005

is that too much gear with a SC?

srothfuss · Sep 30, 2005

Way too much rear gear for a car with a supercharger.. You have to decide which way you want to go with your car. Personally I like N/A cars for DD's since you have less maintinance and trouble free operation.

As for the C-clip thing... I think we recently debated this, and I still say there is nothing wrong with getting rid of the c-clips on a street car.

Modular2v · Sep 30, 2005

there is no reason why you couldnt use c clip eliminator on the street! i did it for two years

Shirley · Sep 30, 2005

Thanks for the info on the rear end but my main concern is whether to go supercharged or n/a which would be the cheaper option, and which would be more practical? Second, 4.10's are too much for an auto with a supercharger, I thought the AOD needed all the help it can get.

TheUser · Sep 30, 2005

srothfuss said:
Personally I like N/A cars for DD's since you have less maintinance and trouble free operation.

this is coming from a guy w/ a stock motor. Nothing against him, but if you do H/C/I, you probably will have all of the idle issues and all of the normal stuff that comes w/ a modified car.

However, I don't think you could reliably boost your stock motor high enough to reach your rwhp goal. To reach your goal, you'd most likely have to do either a good H/C/I or a mild H/C/I and a supercharger...or turbocharger.

That's just my opinion though.

jrichker · Sep 30, 2005

Shirley said:
Thanks for the info on the rear end but my main concern is whether to go supercharged or n/a which would be the cheaper option, and which would be more practical? Second, 4.10's are too much for an auto with a supercharger, I thought the AOD needed all the help it can get.

I suppose the real question is how fast do you want to go? Are you looking for a low 12 second car or just something to suprise the import that pulls up next to you and rev's his engine? Start out conservative and add more goodies as opportunity and budget permit.

Screw or Roots superchargers fall into the category of postive displacement superchargers. They produce most of their boost in the low to mid-range RPM band. Using 4.10's may give you a lot of kick at low speeds, but it may be too much torque to sucessfully communicate to the ground without some major chassis & suspension work. That translates into a car that spins and smokes the tires more than it goes. Kind of like driving 400 HP in the rain all the time - scary & slippery.

Don't forget to take into account that the 4.10's will increase the RPM's that drink gas and can raise the noise level up to the point that you avoid long trips. Mustang exhaust systems are famous for the drone that starts at 1700 RPM's and doesn't taper off until you get above 2300 RPM. Most of the time you have to turn the radio amost to the pain level and shouting can become a habit.

Too loose a converter will be mismatch for a postive displacement supercharger, since it has lots of low end torque and boost drops off as RPM's reach the upper ranges.

My personal choice would be an H/C/I combination with some good aluminum heads. That way you can add pressurized induction at a later time and get more power with less boost. Stay away from heads with large port volumes and monster valves for a Daily Driver - you'll lose too much low end power. In like manner, avoid wild cams - the lopey idle may sound cool, but it kills the low end as well.

Once you do commit to an H/C/I package, you'll need to make some decisions about the trans and converter. Keep you future plans in mind when you make your choices. Too loose on the converter and you take away the streetablity. Too tight on the converter and you can't get the RPM's up to get going quickly.

Dbeck002 · Sep 30, 2005

I did a HCI with my 5.0 and i absolutely love it. Its lighter and so agile.

AFR165s and the trickflow cam, GT40E intake and i made 331 rwtq @ 3700 RPM.

has ****load of upper RPM power and enough low end to be fun. Plus the power is always there, boost is for patient people.

jrichker · Sep 30, 2005

Dbeck002 said:
I did a HCI with my 5.0 and i absolutely love it. Its lighter and so agile.

AFR165s and the trickflow cam, GT40E intake and i made 331 rwtq @ 3700 RPM.

has ****load of upper RPM power and enough low end to be fun. Plus the power is always there, boost is for patient people.

Excellent choice for a street machine that can do good at the strip too.

ill advised · Sep 30, 2005

Dbeck002 said:
I did a HCI with my 5.0 and i absolutely love it. Its lighter and so agile.

AFR165s and the trickflow cam, GT40E intake and i made 331 rwtq @ 3700 RPM.

has ****load of upper RPM power and enough low end to be fun. Plus the power is always there, boost is for patient people.

Well, he did say he wanted a KB blower so I don't think he'll be waiting too long for boost. Excellent numbers on your combo, btw. Nice.

Shirley · Sep 30, 2005

i think I am gonna go h/c/i, address the transmission, and finish the rearend and suspension. I think that will tide me over until I really want to get serious. I am looking for a mid to low twelve streetable cardaily driven car.

Paul Perreca · Sep 30, 2005

whats the horse power on that 331 torque combo??
pauly perreca

srothfuss · Sep 30, 2005

TheUser said:
this is coming from a guy w/ a stock motor. Nothing against him, but if you do H/C/I, you probably will have all of the idle issues and all of the normal stuff that comes w/ a modified car.

That's just my opinion though.

I can understand that with any car that you modify you COULD have issues if you chose the wrong cam, or a cooling system that is not up to the challenge, then you can have lots of problems... Planning makes all the difference here.

My car is stock because I don't know what I want to do with it yet, but I have owned plenty of cars and built plenty of motors. I still stand by my statement. N/A cars will last longer and give little to no issues after years of driving / abuse.

Dbeck002 · Sep 30, 2005

ill advised said:
Well, he did say he wanted a KB blower so I don't think he'll be waiting too long for boost. Excellent numbers on your combo, btw. Nice.

Haha, KB are sweet, no lag..

Thanks BTW

Dbeck002 · Sep 30, 2005

srothfuss said:
I can understand that with any car that you modify you COULD have issues if you chose the wrong cam, or a cooling system that is not up to the challenge, then you can have lots of problems... Planning makes all the difference here.

My car is stock because I don't know what I want to do with it yet, but I have owned plenty of cars and built plenty of motors. I still stand by my statement. N/A cars will last longer and give little to no issues after years of driving / abuse.

you are right... N/A performance motors generally last longer.

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