Better 1/4's..more HP, or TQ...this may be dumb..

chris kelvin · Dec 14, 2005

Lol sorry this may be a dumb post, but i was speaking to an import guy today about hp vs tq and i have to ask..

Ok, ALL things being equal, let's say you have one car with 400hp/200tq race the 1/4 from a stop against a car with 200hp/400tq....what would be the outcome of the major differances.

Let's say the #'s are both on a RWD car also..remember all is equal though, weight, drivetrain, powerband etc...if it can be for this post

From what i know, higher hp gives higher trap speeds...but wouldn't the higher torque car get down the line fast..although not having a higher trap speed then the higher HP car..?

PS, this guy at autozone (import guy) has an integra with mods he said, and he's up to 280hp at the wheels...but his torque under 210..he was saying that it really didn't matter cause higher HP is what you want over TORQUE..? Then ofcoarse i told him i'd rather a car with more torque then hp..like the old muscle cars......lol an argument almost insued... It was all good though, but this discussion got me thinking..

Thanks.

03ghoststang · Dec 14, 2005

well the car with more TQ will get down the track faster if he can hook up off the line while the guy that hass all the HP is waiting for his car to reach the high rpm's for his full power to get him down the line.... also it would depend on how the TQ curve is pretty flat

hotmustang331 · Dec 14, 2005

Well it would be like a 4 bager racing a diesel(dads diesel truck makes like exactly that). Both would be possable. And well the car with 400Ft#s of torque wouldnt be a very RPM natured car. My experience tells me that the 400HP car would win, WHY? Because you spend your time in the upper RPMs durring a race..NOT in the peak torque range. HP is a function of torque X RPM BTW...they are directly connected.

SOO, the torqy diesel would pull RIGHT off the line...but it would fall short ALOT unless maybe it was geared to pull a long ways through its short RPM range...but even still would not win. Once the 4 banger gets in its powerband, its not coming out and will pull like mad.

But tell him that any V8 is capapble of 280RWHP, but also about 300RWTQ. WHATEVER HIS 4 BANGER CAN REACH HP WISE, SO CAN WE...AND WE WILL HVE TWICE THE TORQUE. SO basically we can get off the line in a hurry, and pull like mad up top. V8>ALL4s

03ghoststang · Dec 14, 2005

did he also tell you his theory on the power to weight ratio and how he would beat you cause he weighs less and all that BS but seriously you would want a good torque curve but also the HP to pull you on the high rpm's

hotmustang331 · Dec 14, 2005

^exactly! Tell him to remember we dont have diesels

ponysarepretty · Dec 14, 2005

chris kelvin said:
Lol sorry this may be a dumb post, but i was speaking to an import guy today about hp vs tq and i have to ask..

Ok, ALL things being equal, let's say you have one car with 400hp/200tq race the 1/4 from a stop against a car with 200hp/400tq....what would be the outcome of the major differances.

Let's say the #'s are both on a RWD car also..remember all is equal though, weight, drivetrain, powerband etc...if it can be for this post

From what i know, higher hp gives higher trap speeds...but wouldn't the higher torque car get down the line fast..although not having a higher trap speed then the higher HP car..?

PS, this guy at autozone (import guy) has an integra with mods he said, and he's up to 280hp at the wheels...but his torque under 210..he was saying that it really didn't matter cause higher HP is what you want over TORQUE..? Then ofcoarse i told him i'd rather a car with more torque then hp..like the old muscle cars......lol an argument almost insued... It was all good though, but this discussion got me thinking..

Thanks.

powerband can't be equal with the parameters you gave, a car with 200 hp and 400 lbft would not be revving any higher than 3000 rpm. While a Car with 400/200 would be revving a lot more than 10,000 rpm, just by nature of how hp is calculated. Torque is the true measure of power, however you have to take into consideration, a 10k rpm car can be geared 3x as high as the 3000 rpm car without detriment to shifting points (so basically a 2.00 rear end vs a 6.00 rear end).

stng · Dec 14, 2005

My understanding goes like this, and if I am wrong please feel free to correct me...
Torque really comes into play off the line and at higher speeds, and for the car to push through the wind resistance for example.
Horsepower is what is making the car rev/how fast the engine is able to accelerate.
As far as what is more important/which car would win, I think it would all depend on the weight of the car.

Dragstr05 · Dec 14, 2005

The 400hp/200tq car would win. This doesnt mean that torque doesnt matter, but horsepower is fictional, it doesnt exist. It is only a measurement of torque based on RPM. I dont remember any real details, but thats the simplest way of putting it.

From that you can understand that a car with 200hp/400tq will not rev much, as with 400tq it should put out well over 200hp assuming it had the capability to rev to an RPM ideal for racing.

ponysarepretty · Dec 14, 2005

HP = TQ * RPM / 5250

HP is horsepower, measured in horsepower
TQ is measured in lbft.
RPM is how fast the engine is spinning when it is producing that much torque.

Depends how far they race, if they race until 30 mph, the 400 lbft car would most probably win. Jsut like how a diesel truck can slap a Corvette silly down the 1320 with a chip, some tranny mods and a catback. A turbo upgrade cn get them deep into 11s.

chris kelvin · Dec 14, 2005

Wow thanks guys, and no i didn't get into a heavy discussion of weight, racing etc...we just talked about hp/tq alittle.

Let's say for the sake of this thread, hell let's even make it fictional...

BOTH cars HP peak at 5000 and both cars TORQUE peak at 4500rpms.....what would be the outcome.

Lol i don't blame you if you vote this "dumbest thread of the year"..haha. AND seriously i got nothing against imports, but when people say torque doesn't matter as much as HP..i had to call him on that one. In a way you can look at this as each car is lacking what the other car has...but what would be the result of this..?

joshheat25 · Dec 14, 2005

A car with alot of horsepower and no torque will have to rev much higher off the line to get a good start! Hence a ricer car sounds like it's gonna take a **** off the line, while a stang just sounds awesome. j/k for example a twin turbo cobra is faster than a KB cobra top end with same boost!

1LowGT · Dec 14, 2005

tell him you dont talk to ricer guys and thanks for stoping by.

HoustonGT · Dec 14, 2005

03ghoststang said:
did he also tell you his theory on the power to weight ratio and how he would beat you cause he weighs less and all that BS but seriously you would want a good torque curve but also the HP to pull you on the high rpm's

Well, in all reality. If you took your stang that's putting down 280rwhp and raced that integra that's laying down 280fwhp, you'd get owned. The weight difference would be the reason, so weight does matter.

PS, Don't call me a ricer, i'm just not ignorant

1LowGT · Dec 14, 2005

nobody called anyone anything in fact i got some ricer buddies myself

HoustonGT · Dec 14, 2005

hazze4ya said:
nobody called anyone anything in fact i got some ricer buddies myself

I know, i was just kiddin, hence this guy >>> lol

4.6flash · Dec 14, 2005

I raced a turbo integra, don't know what numbers he was making but I pulled him first and second (car, 2 cars gap). BY the time I hit third he was driving past me.:Track:

trinity_gt · Dec 15, 2005

The 400HP car will walk the 200HP one. The ability to cover a large distance in a short time will be determined more by HP than not torque. As time and distance open up, HP becomes the dominant term since it's measuring the ability to get work done.

Look at an F1 engine. These things make 800HP or more at 18,000RPM but produce comparatively small torque numbers...assuming 800HP@18000, torque is about 233 ft-lbs and its peak is probably not alot more than that. Yet an F1 car is capable of astounding 1/4-mile times and not just because they're very light. Anyone that's been within 100 feet of one at full song knows the brutal, visceral nature and potential of these things.

Disturbed One · Dec 15, 2005

HoustonGT said:
Well, in all reality. If you took your stang that's putting down 280rwhp and raced that integra that's laying down 280fwhp, you'd get owned. The weight difference would be the reason, so weight does matter.

PS, Don't call me a ricer, i'm just not ignorant

FWHP= Fu#king wasted horsepower

chris kelvin · Dec 15, 2005

Very good TrinityGT...

Thanks alot guys. As far as the weight factor, yeah i know that makes hella differance...but this thread is a comparison of 2 exact cars, one missing what the other has.

HoustonGT · Dec 15, 2005

Disturbed One said:
FWHP= Fu#king wasted horsepower

Helll yea!!!!!!!!!!!!111111oneoneoneunouno

Better 1/4's..more HP, or TQ...this may be dumb..

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