better flow right out of the box: trickflow or AFR ?

IntenseBlue · Feb 27, 2006

The 185 heads are better heads than the 165s, but not for your combination. AFR 185s will do good on a 302/306, but they need more compression or boost. The 165s are fine and will prove to be about the same as Twisted Wedges. The AFR 165s should have better bottom-end numbers. I was talking to someone at Total Engine Airflow (don't know if you've heard of them or not) and he said that their testing showed on the same motor, I'm assuming a 302/306, that the Twisted Wedges peaked about 10 more horsepower. This was on an engine dyno. It'd probably be about 7-8 on a dyno. This is small enough to be due to the cam or another part of the combo and not just the heads. If it were me, and when the time comes, I'll be going AFR.

NcogNitto · Feb 27, 2006

Great choice for a street 302-8 man
If way more airflow is needed in the future, you can always upgrade then.
If you have the money for a power adder or stroker you'll always find the extra funds for larger heads too.

My buddy's SN with 165's and an emissions cam makes my Fox feel like a rock on city streets
Not only is it responsive down low, but pulls hard up the tach as well.

5spd GT · Feb 27, 2006

Keep the 165's...it has more pros than cons even for the future. Get a custom cam, it will beat the TFS cams in every way.

89white50 · Feb 27, 2006

kepp the 165's the resale value will still be great when ur looking to upgrade down the road...and you will. haha
groverdill's #'s says enough.

vikingpower · Feb 27, 2006

I bought TW's and spent some time porting/polishing them before I put them on my car. So, for a lot less money and a little extra effort, my heads are at least as good as 185's (flow-wise) but still got the smaller port volume.
BTW, you should read MM&FF's head shootout on AFR's website parts 1-4. The TW's were only 10hp I think behind the 185's.

GroverDill · Feb 27, 2006

vikingpower said:
I bought TW's and spent some time porting/polishing them before I put them on my car. So, for a lot less money and a little extra effort, my heads are at least as good as 185's (flow-wise) but still got the smaller port volume.
BTW, you should read MM&FF's head shootout on AFR's website parts 1-4. The TW's were only 10hp I think behind the 185's.

post you flow numbers.

with no numbers, you are just guessing.

vikingpower · Feb 27, 2006

GroverDill said:
post you flow numbers.

with no numbers, you are just guessing.

I never had them benched, but I know they'd close the 10hp gap with the 185's on the engine that MM&FF used. If you saw them, you'd agree with me.

2000xp8 · Feb 27, 2006

Afr's just cost more, they are no better no worse. Personal preference is what this comes down to.

Curse · Feb 27, 2006

I went with the Trick Flows not because they were cheaper (a whooping $200not much when your spending a grand plus), but because they compete well with a CNC ported head and they are as cast. To me, that speaks volumes. Plus if you need more flow down the road, a CNC port job and there you go.

87'GTstang · Feb 28, 2006

2000xp8 said:
Afr's just cost more, they are no better no worse. Personal preference is what this comes down to.

Port sizing, length, design, and work, valve angle, valve placement, valve seat angle/cut, valve size, combustion chamber contour and shape (design type), combustion chamber size, spark plug angle and placement, ect.

There are a lot of variables that can make one cylinder head better over another, preference is only part of it. Most people have that preference because they know what works, people don't pick the worst of the products and swear by them "because". Too many variables can change how efficient or how well a cylinder head works.

2000xp8 · Feb 28, 2006

87'GTstang said:
There are a lot of variables that can make one cylinder head better over another, preference is only part of it. Most people have that preference because they know what works, people don't pick the worst of the products and swear by them "because". Too many variables can change how efficient or how well a cylinder head works.

Interesting you say that, how many mustang racers do you think swear by afr heads? Just about none. But there is plenty of guys using edelbrock and TFS heads.
AFR has a great internet rep, so i guess if the internet says they are the best, then they are.
What i'm saying in this particular case, is that you could do the same with either set. Even though the design is different doesn't mean the power output isn't the same.

The whole combo will tell the story, and as someone said earlier, why buy a $1300 set of heads, and use a $140 cam?
I'd rather have an $1100 set of heads and a $350 cam.

I'm by no means saying to not use afr's, just don't get them an expect more, just because you payed more.

fiveoho · Feb 28, 2006

i sure am getting alot of replies...and i appreciate them all.

im still worried about what i got (165s) . its prob a 60 to 40 percent thing.....of all the people ive talked to and asked, 60% suggested the 165s for my setup. the other 40% or so said the 185s would be a better choice.

like i said, ive already ordered my 165s.

i guess my main question as this time is this: Had i ordered the 185s, how much Rwhp would have been gained (guessing)? any?

or would it have taken away from the bottom end a little compared to the 165s?

thanks guys

Redrooster · Feb 28, 2006

You couldn't know unless you tried the two heads back to back on you combo. Kinda worrying over spilt milk. W/O a doubt the 185's would make more hp on a different larger CI engine. You ordered a great set of heads and they will run fine on your engine.

5spd GT · Feb 28, 2006

fiveoh - Keep the 165's. You would lose some bottomend with the 185's. You also need to flycut the pistons which is troublesome for sure and weaken the stock pistons. It isn't much difference. The 165's flow quite a bit...you will be impressed. on a 302/306 they make very similar power numbers. The 165's have a more useable powerband. Keep the 165's...

fiveoho · Feb 28, 2006

'preciate it guys.

you guys will definetly know if and when i hit that 300 mark!

IntenseBlue · Feb 28, 2006

IntenseBlue · Feb 28, 2006

vikingpower said:
I bought TW's and spent some time porting/polishing them before I put them on my car. So, for a lot less money and a little extra effort, my heads are at least as good as 185's (flow-wise) but still got the smaller port volume.
BTW, you should read MM&FF's head shootout on AFR's website parts 1-4. The TW's were only 10hp I think behind the 185's.

It's all in the combo. I can bring up an article where they're alot farther behind than that.

Sicarius428 · Mar 1, 2006

They both flow about the same out of the box. Articles say one thing one month and another the next. The Trick Flows will have more potential because they can be ported with the 2.02 valves. Stick with the 165s so you don't have to modify your pistons is what I say. The 165s should be fine with the direction you are going. I would be lying if I said that the 185s won't net you more power with boost but if you are probably going to stay NA the 165s are ideal. Even with boost the 165s are a health breathing head too so it shouldn't be too much of an issue.
Kevin

vikingpower · Mar 1, 2006

IntenseBlue said:
It's all in the combo. I can bring up an article where they're alot farther behind than that.

I'd like to read that article if you got it

vikingpower · Mar 1, 2006

2000xp8 said:
AFR has a great internet rep, so i guess if the internet says they are the best, then they are.

The whole combo will tell the story, and as someone said earlier, why buy a $1300 set of heads, and use a $140 cam?
I'd rather have an $1100 set of heads and a $350 cam.

I'm by no means saying to not use afr's, just don't get them an expect more, just because you payed more.

Well said

better flow right out of the box: trickflow or AFR ?

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