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  • 1996 - 2004 SN95 Mustang -General/Talk-
  • SN95 4.6L Mustang Tech

Big Power with out Supercharger

  • Thread starter Thread starter hahnan03gt
  • Start date Start date Sep 28, 2004
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hahnan03gt

New Member
Jul 22, 2004
48
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0
Long island
Sep 28, 2004
#1
  • Sep 28, 2004
  • #1
Gimmei some good mods wiht out going to a supercharger like wat would be the best
 

MyEarsHurt

New Member
May 21, 2004
918
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0
Sep 28, 2004
#2
  • Sep 28, 2004
  • #2
Without a power adder like giggle gas or a supercharger, you will not be getting another 100+ horsepower anytime soon. A lot of people just go the bolt on route, full exhaust with an o/r x pipe will give you a little extra power, but your best bet if you want a LOT of power without a supercharger will be nitrous, dry or wet, your call...its the cheapest way...
 
2

2002BLGT

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2003
2,945
4
59
Bedford VA
Sep 28, 2004
#3
  • Sep 28, 2004
  • #3
TB/plenum , cams , 4.10 gears (wont add power but will get it on the ground quicker ) , good clutch and aluminum driveshaft , lower control arms and drop some weight out of the car and get a really good tire under it ......is my best advice for ya ....
 
H

hahnan03gt

New Member
Jul 22, 2004
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Long island
Sep 28, 2004
#4
  • Sep 28, 2004
  • #4
how much did ur vortech cost all together including instALL
 
6

65straightsick

New Member
Jun 4, 2004
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Montgomery, AL
Sep 28, 2004
#5
  • Sep 28, 2004
  • #5
Giggle gas, i like that. 2002BLGT, i would think you could make more than 370 HP with a turbo...how much boost are you running? How much boost would it take to get a 99 GT into the 400-450 HP range? Or to turn out low 12's either way...
 
S

Sage427

New Member
Sep 27, 2004
33
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0
Sep 28, 2004
#6
  • Sep 28, 2004
  • #6
hahnan03gt said:
Gimmei some good mods wiht out going to a supercharger like wat would be the best
Click to expand...

hey hahnan03gt,

you might have saw my posts, talking about a big block swap, but thats just my own personal taste. however there are a TON of things you can do without going the forced induction route or the "Fast and Furiouis" way of juicing your engine every 10min which can lead to damage if not setup properly (did anybody else notice a rise in decked out eclipses with huge wings, painted crazy on the road after that movie came out!?).

You might want to consider having your small block V8 rebuilt, bored over, after market heads, cam. I'll be honest i'm not familiar with ford engines, i'm used to chevy small blocks b/c I had one in my last vehicle. But i assume its the same concept. Look into a stroker kit, i dunno if they make them for the 4.6L though (Someone please check me on the 4.6L rebuild kit if you can get engine kits for them). With a good engine rebuild its very common to hit the 400hp+ range. As for intake, if your GT has one of the false hood scoops on the stock hood, try to make it functional, with cold air induction, it should also give you nice gains. as for exhaust, try maybe adding headers and custom pipes. Even consider switching out your rear end, it won't give your any added horsepower, but it does give your car a better "get up and go" espeically in acceleration.

And then later on if you want to add some boost you'll be more than ready.

Someone please check me out on this. I don't want to give out info that isn't certain, but thats what i've done on small block V8's
 
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GinoGT

Founding Member
Aug 11, 2002
1,862
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36
Sep 29, 2004
#7
  • Sep 29, 2004
  • #7


Cold airs are worthless. Don't buy them, don't look at them, don't even think of them.

Don't bother with a stroker kit, ESPECIALLY if you're staying naturally aspirated. The bore is the problem with modular engines. Adding more stroke while keeping the heads suffocated (shrouded) by the small bore is just shooting yourself in the foot. The best way to do an N/A modular engine would be to go with a big bore setup. For that, you need an aluminum block (Cobra) to be resleeved (you don't acutally bore it out).

The big bore with some ported heads and cams, along with a Bullitt intake (until something better comes along) and full exhaust would make one bad ass N/A setup.

Of course that'll cost big $$$, and going the blower/nitrous route gives you more power for less money.
 

FallenPhoenix

New Member
Nov 22, 2003
911
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0
Odessa Tx
Sep 29, 2004
#8
  • Sep 29, 2004
  • #8
Well the advice is sound for most engines, but for one there are no aftermarket heads for our engines, cams are just now developing, hell we have 2-3 intakes at the most.

You can bore and stroke the 4.6 out to 5.3 but it's expensive and will not net you a ton of power. It is however a good start on a naturally aspirated motor. A full exhaust will give you the best power gains right now, as for making the scoop functional, I wouldn't recommend it as it has a tendency to bulge and potentially fly off at highway speeds if the honeycomb is taken out.

CAI kits are questionable in thier power gains but you can pick up 5-10hp there. We may be limited by the cubes but our engines love boost for some reason so that's the way most people go for big power.
 

tomustang

Psychotic Member
Founding Member
Jun 8, 2000
3,434
2
78
McLean Hospital
Sep 29, 2004
#9
  • Sep 29, 2004
  • #9
VT is making alot of improvement twards the cylinder heads and cams, but the route in making alot of power in N/A form is going to cost alot.
 
G

GinoGT

Founding Member
Aug 11, 2002
1,862
0
36
Sep 29, 2004
#10
  • Sep 29, 2004
  • #10
FallenPhoenix said:
Well the advice is sound for most engines, but for one there are no aftermarket heads for our engines, cams are just now developing, hell we have 2-3 intakes at the most.
Click to expand...

Cams have been out for the modulars for a little while now.

FallenPhoenix said:
You can bore and stroke the 4.6 out to 5.3 but it's expensive and will not net you a ton of power. It is however a good start on a naturally aspirated motor.
Click to expand...

On the contrary, take a look over at the Corral. There's some guy with a project, forget the exact name but is has "350" in it. He has a big bore 2V with mild headwork and cams, a few other things, the stock lower intake, and side exhaust. He's putting over 300HP and TQ to the wheels. There's still a good deal left on the table too.

FallenPhoenix said:
CAI kits are questionable in thier power gains but you can pick up 5-10hp there. We may be limited by the cubes but our engines love boost for some reason so that's the way most people go for big power.
Click to expand...

Any engine loves boost, as long as it's not high compression. Then it just doesn't love it as much.

CAI's aren't questionable, they're garbage. The majority of what little power they may make can probably be attributed to going from the paper air filter to a K&N-style one. You'll make 5-10HP if you're smoking a joint that came with it.
 
S

Sage427

New Member
Sep 27, 2004
33
0
0
Sep 29, 2004
#11
  • Sep 29, 2004
  • #11
FallenPhoenix said:
Well the advice is sound for most engines, but for one there are no aftermarket heads for our engines, cams are just now developing, hell we have 2-3 intakes at the most.

You can bore and stroke the 4.6 out to 5.3 but it's expensive and will not net you a ton of power. It is however a good start on a naturally aspirated motor. A full exhaust will give you the best power gains right now, as for making the scoop functional, I wouldn't recommend it as it has a tendency to bulge and potentially fly off at highway speeds if the honeycomb is taken out.

CAI kits are questionable in thier power gains but you can pick up 5-10hp there. We may be limited by the cubes but our engines love boost for some reason so that's the way most people go for big power.
Click to expand...

FallenPhoenix,

That sux about the 4.6L! Then I would have to agree with getting Boost, and exhaust it would be considered "cheaper."

i don't mean to get off topic but as for removing the honeycomb on the stock hood, i actually considered that when I drop in my CJ. I thought it would be a great way for cold air induction hitting right on top of the air filter, until i heard that lol.
 
S

Sage427

New Member
Sep 27, 2004
33
0
0
Sep 29, 2004
#12
  • Sep 29, 2004
  • #12
GinoGT,

Yeah I was going to mention that he might be ableto get a mechanic to rework his heads to increase airflow, and maybe try to find better pistons to bump up the Comp Ratio some. Just an idea though.
 
G

GinoGT

Founding Member
Aug 11, 2002
1,862
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36
Sep 29, 2004
#13
  • Sep 29, 2004
  • #13
Send the heads out to a company like VT Engines, Fox Lake, or Modular Ford Powerhouse.....those heads aren't something your average mechanic are going to work on.

As for the piston idea, doing something like that you might as well just forge the whole bottom end.
 
J

jbrown

New Member
Aug 5, 2003
393
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0
Tallahassee, FL
Sep 29, 2004
#14
  • Sep 29, 2004
  • #14
to get a gt into the 400-450hp range you will need a power adder, stock gt blocks cant take much more than 6-8psi of boost safely. A gt with bolts ons, cams, slick, supercharger at 6-8psi should make 400-450hp with a safe tune, it should be good for mid to high 11's to get low 12's you can do without the cams. nitrous in place of the sc should give you about the same results in the 1/4.
 

FallenPhoenix

New Member
Nov 22, 2003
911
0
0
Odessa Tx
Sep 29, 2004
#15
  • Sep 29, 2004
  • #15
GinoGT said:
Cams have been out for the modulars for a little while now.
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that only regrinds were available until a couple years ago.

GinoGT said:
On the contrary, take a look over at the Corral. There's some guy with a project, forget the exact name but is has "350" in it. He has a big bore 2V with mild headwork and cams, a few other things, the stock lower intake, and side exhaust. He's putting over 300HP and TQ to the wheels. There's still a good deal left on the table too.
Click to expand...

Right, big power can be had but a stroker kit is not going to give you that power alone. If mod A gives X amount of power on a 4.6 it should give X+ on a 5.3

GinoGT said:
Any engine loves boost, as long as it's not high compression. Then it just doesn't love it as much.
Click to expand...

The design of our heads is a large part of the equation, any engine will take boost, but some are more efficient at it. The 4v motor likes it even more.

GinoGT said:
CAI's aren't questionable, they're garbage. The majority of what little power they may make can probably be attributed to going from the paper air filter to a K&N-style one. You'll make 5-10HP if you're smoking a joint that came with it.
Click to expand...

Dynos are not the end all be all of power measurement, a CAI will not show gains until your actually on the track moving air and under real world conditions. The CAIs that make power on a dyno (LS1) have large restrictions from the factory and show even more power on the track.
 
G

GinoGT

Founding Member
Aug 11, 2002
1,862
0
36
Sep 29, 2004
#16
  • Sep 29, 2004
  • #16
jbrown said:
to get a gt into the 400-450hp range you will need a power adder, stock gt blocks cant take much more than 6-8psi of boost safely. A gt with bolts ons, cams, slick, supercharger at 6-8psi should make 400-450hp with a safe tune, it should be good for mid to high 11's to get low 12's you can do without the cams. nitrous in place of the sc should give you about the same results in the 1/4.
Click to expand...

www.modulardepot.com Guys are running low 12's, high 11's, even mid 11's with N/A 2V's. You just need to really devote the car to drag racing.

FallenPhoenix said:
The design of our heads is a large part of the equation, any engine will take boost, but some are more efficient at it. The 4v motor likes it even more.


Dynos are not the end all be all of power measurement, a CAI will not show gains until your actually on the track moving air and under real world conditions. The CAIs that make power on a dyno (LS1) have large restrictions from the factory and show even more power on the track.
Click to expand...

Our 2V heads suck. None of the 2VNA drag racers rave about cold airs either, so I guess their real world gains are nonexistant as well.
 

stang976

New Member
Apr 13, 2004
853
0
0
Westchester, NY
Sep 29, 2004
#17
  • Sep 29, 2004
  • #17
4.10 gears, plenum/tb combo. full exhaust (with of Xpipe), vt stage 1 cams, pulleys, K&N filter, a good tune
 

kah9911

New Member
May 20, 2004
102
0
0
Downingtown, PA
Sep 29, 2004
#18
  • Sep 29, 2004
  • #18
it depends what you call big HP. you can get well over 300 with a n/a big bore w/ all the bolt ons and some head and cams. put the car on a diet and you will be running some good times.
 
G

GinoGT

Founding Member
Aug 11, 2002
1,862
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36
Sep 29, 2004
#19
  • Sep 29, 2004
  • #19
300RWHP can be done without a big bore. I would LOVE too see what a nicely done big bore 2V can do.
 
B

BVille99GT

Member
May 1, 2003
283
0
16
Brownsville TX.
Sep 29, 2004
#20
  • Sep 29, 2004
  • #20
Sage427 said:
however there are a TON of things you can do without going the forced induction route or the "Fast and Furiouis" way of juicing your engine every 10min which can lead to damage if not setup properly (did anybody else notice a rise in decked out eclipses with huge wings, painted crazy on the road after that movie came out!?).
Click to expand...

So you think N2O is a buggus power adder that spread out thanks for the stupid movie F&F. N2O was first used in WWII in airplanes, because at certain altitude oxygen is almost non-existing. N2O allowed this planes to go gain more altitude. So I don't want to offend you (or anyone else who don't like N2O), but some of us like the gains we have with our N2O system and not to mention the torque.
 
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