bogging??

2012-5SLOW · Oct 8, 2018

new to the forum scene. Ive got a 2012 5.0 with about 17,000 miles on it. car has roush exhaust, short throw shifter and a tuner. the previous owner uploaded whatever tune is on there, recently after putting about $10 of cheaper gas to get home(Ive gone through two tanks of quality 93 since then) I noticed a cut in power in 3-4th gear between 4k-5k RPM. only happens at full throttle and drives perfectly fine aside from that. the motor seems to bog out and not apply torque and then pulls out of it hauling ass. I tried to re-upload the tune and it didn't work. any ideas where to start?? need help

08GT500 · Oct 9, 2018

Don’t let your Fuel get soo low, it can stir up sediment in the bottom of the Tank. Obviously- it happens.
I’d check your Fuel Filter/system blockage/Injector Dirty.
Check your Plug Wires for loose or crossfire.
If you have a Tune, it may have fouled a Plug with low Octane Fuel. Remove/clean/replace.Plugs.
MAF Sensor Dirty, Spray with CRC TB cleaner and retest.
The issue is Fuel delivery or Spark, being in a specific rpm range, randomly- it may not be related . to the Fuel you used.
Do a full Tune up, check any Vacuum lines for Cracks, dry rotting, Replace.
Check Coolant level
Check Oil level.
Clean your Air Filter.
Verify you have full Fuel output.
Clean your TB Butterflies and the areas near with TB Cleaner.
.see how things are now and test.
Check your Inertia Switch Connections, be sure they are solid.
Check your Fuel Pump Wiring.
Hope that helps!

2012-5SLOW · Oct 9, 2018

08GT500 said:
Don’t let your Fuel get soo low, it can stir up sediment in the bottom of the Tank. Obviously- it happens.
I’d check your Fuel Filter/system blockage/Injector Dirty.
Check your Plug Wires for loose or crossfire.
If you have a Tune, it may have fouled a Plug with low Octane Fuel. Remove/clean/replace.Plugs.
MAF Sensor Dirty, Spray with CRC TB cleaner and retest.
The issue is Fuel delivery or Spark, being in a specific rpm range, randomly- it may not be related . to the Fuel you used.
Do a full Tune up, check any Vacuum lines for Cracks, dry rotting, Replace.
Check Coolant level
Check Oil level.
Clean your Air Filter.
Verify you have full Fuel output.
Clean your TB Butterflies and the areas near with TB Cleaner.
.see how things are now and test.
Check your Inertia Switch Connections, be sure they are solid.
Check your Fuel Pump Wiring.
Hope that helps!

gonna give it all a shot this weekend thank you!

racerraj · Oct 9, 2018

Good chance on fouled plugs. I would not use Throttle Body cleaner on the MAF sensor. It can leave a residue that causes it to read incorrectly. CRC also has a MAF sensor cleaner made for that. It won't have crossed spark plug wires, you have a coil pack for each plug. Make sure moisture isn't getting into the spark plug hole. Not really likely with that few miles though. A little spark plug boot grease right where the boot seals to the head keeps it sealed though.

08GT500 · Oct 9, 2018

That is correct, racerraj. My bad. I didn’t mean to leave that out- you can use CRC TB Cleaner when cleaning out the TB, Butterfly’s, etc. The much more sensitive MAF should be cleaned only with CRC MAF Cleaner. CRC Products are pricey, but are WELL worth it for establishing an accurate baseline.
Coil on Plug Cars (being a 2012) eliminates Plug Wires crossing, remember to use a little Never Seize on the Plugs Threads when re-installing, however.

2012-5SLOW · Oct 15, 2018

08GT500 said:
That is correct, racerraj. My bad. I didn’t mean to leave that out- you can use CRC TB Cleaner when cleaning out the TB, Butterfly’s, etc. The much more sensitive MAF should be cleaned only with CRC MAF Cleaner. CRC Products are pricey, but are WELL worth it for establishing an accurate baseline.
Coil on Plug Cars (being a 2012) eliminates Plug Wires crossing, remember to use a little Never Seize on the Plugs Threads when re-installing, however.

I checked all my spark plugs yesterday and they all seemed perfectly okay. Thinking about upgrading them soon anyway but is my next step fuel? Checked for any pending codes and there was nothing, car is progressively getting worse. MAF was clean. guessing fuel or possibly some sensor thats making it pull timing

2012-5SLOW · Oct 15, 2018

racerraj said:
Good chance on fouled plugs. I would not use Throttle Body cleaner on the MAF sensor. It can leave a residue that causes it to read incorrectly. CRC also has a MAF sensor cleaner made for that. It won't have crossed spark plug wires, you have a coil pack for each plug. Make sure moisture isn't getting into the spark plug hole. Not really likely with that few miles though. A little spark plug boot grease right where the boot seals to the head keeps it sealed though.

I checked all my spark plugs yesterday and they all seemed perfectly okay. Thinking about upgrading them soon anyway but is my next step fuel? Checked for any pending codes and there was nothing, car is progressively getting worse. MAF was clean. guessing its fuel or possibly some sensor thats making it pull timing. any suggestions?

08GT500 · Oct 16, 2018

Hi, Sorry to hear that, Bro. Running a High Octane Tune on low Octane can affect things adversely-moreso if you romped on it when the 87 was in it? Good news if Plugs are not melted, Knock sensor did its job. It may/may not be coincidence that you started having issues, here. Do the things that cost little or nothing first, but buy Plugs and swap out your Fuel Filter, buy CRC MAF Cleaner (if not already). Does it do this before Engine is fully warm? Try that AFTER you do the below- check your Coolant first, however. I think the issue may be getting ready to fully reveal itself via CEL.
It’ll be found either way. Read, first- prioritize, then start with these suggestions,
1) Try turning your Traction control off, or on- opposite of where it was. If you have Modes, try using another selection.
2) Change your online Fuel Filter. If you can get a rubber line on it, hook up a gauge and test Fuel Pressure (Scanner will also show this). Borrow a Fuel Pressure Test Kit/ Gauge from Advanced
if you can’t get a line on it.
3) When possible- Install a FP gauge on the rail, it’ll help you later, as well as now.
4) Datalog a drive with a drive cycle with your Scantool, if yours cannot- Advanced Auto will likely let you use theirs for one, look through Sensor Data for pegged Sensors, I.E. O2 Sensor(s) not correcting, Fuel trim, etc. Valuable information. More on bottom.
5) May be a weak/failing Coil, hard to test an intermittent one aside from swapping them to different Cylinders, it may be ok in one Cylinder- borderline in another. Label original Position with a sharpie with current position. Aside from a visual or resistance test with a VOM, intermittent Coils are difficult to test, unless you have a high-pot meter.Aftermarket ones usually prone to issues. Could buy 1 OEM and move it around to different Cylinders.
6) Change your Plugs. If not OEM- Replace with oem.
7) If you visually inspected the MAF, didn’t clean with CRC MAF cleaner, do so. Clean the entire Throttle Body, CAI internally, butterflies, everything with the MAF Cleaner. Clean air Filter(?) if not- Clean or Replace.Change PCV Valve.
8) Change your Oil & Filter with a Motorcraft, K&N, or Mobil 1 Filter.
9) Check your Charging System, all Wires, Clean Battery Connections, look for- and clean all Grounds- look for bad Grounds on Motor, Chassis, CPU, Measure Alternator output Voltage, Battery Voltage, etc.
10) Look at your 02 Sensors, Remove, Clean- do not test on resistance with VOM as it can fry them! You can see them working on the Scantool, if one is not within range or pegged- Change it.
11) Check all your Vacuum lines, any questionable lines; replace. Check Injector Connections, Remove, Clean, reconnect.
Hopefully this will yield some results- if not directly, where to look.
The drive Cycle recording is VERY important. Note values and verify on paper ST & LT Fuel Trim, 02’s, Coolant Deg.,Timing Min/Max, F.P., Load% when Car is at the point it has the power loss. This is likely where you’ll find the issue, if the others did not yield results.
It’s important to do a Tune up and establish a baseline, along with the rest. It should cost little, Good Luck! Ill follow up with this, others may as well. John

2012-5SLOW · Oct 16, 2018

08GT500 said:
Hi, Sorry to hear that, Bro. Running a High Octane Tune on low Octane can affect things adversely-moreso if you romped on it when the 87 was in it? Good news if Plugs are not melted, Knock sensor did its job. It may/may not be coincidence that you started having issues, here. Do the things that cost little or nothing first, but buy Plugs and swap out your Fuel Filter, buy CRC MAF Cleaner (if not already). Does it do this before Engine is fully warm? Try that AFTER you do the below- check your Coolant first, however. I think the issue may be getting ready to fully reveal itself via CEL.
It’ll be found either way. Read, first- prioritize, then start with these suggestions,
1) Try turning your Traction control off, or on- opposite of where it was. If you have Modes, try using another selection.
2) Change your online Fuel Filter. If you can get a rubber line on it, hook up a gauge and test Fuel Pressure (Scanner will also show this). Borrow a Fuel Pressure Test Kit/ Gauge from Advanced
if you can’t get a line on it.
3) When possible- Install a FP gauge on the rail, it’ll help you later, as well as now.
4) Datalog a drive with a drive cycle with your Scantool, if yours cannot- Advanced Auto will likely let you use theirs for one, look through Sensor Data for pegged Sensors, I.E. O2 Sensor(s) not correcting, Fuel trim, etc. Valuable information. More on bottom.
5) May be a weak/failing Coil, hard to test an intermittent one aside from swapping them to different Cylinders, it may be ok in one Cylinder- borderline in another. Label original Position with a sharpie with current position. Aside from a visual or resistance test with a VOM, intermittent Coils are difficult to test, unless you have a high-pot meter.Aftermarket ones usually prone to issues. Could buy 1 OEM and move it around to different Cylinders.
6) Change your Plugs. If not OEM- Replace with oem.
7) If you visually inspected the MAF, didn’t clean with CRC MAF cleaner, do so. Clean the entire Throttle Body, CAI internally, butterflies, everything with the MAF Cleaner. Clean air Filter(?) if not- Clean or Replace.Change PCV Valve.
8) Change your Oil & Filter with a Motorcraft, K&N, or Mobil 1 Filter.
9) Check your Charging System, all Wires, Clean Battery Connections, look for- and clean all Grounds- look for bad Grounds on Motor, Chassis, CPU, Measure Alternator output Voltage, Battery Voltage, etc.
10) Look at your 02 Sensors, Remove, Clean- do not test on resistance with VOM as it can fry them! You can see them working on the Scantool, if one is not within range or pegged- Change it.
11) Check all your Vacuum lines, any questionable lines; replace. Check Injector Connections, Remove, Clean, reconnect.
Hopefully this will yield some results- if not directly, where to look.
The drive Cycle recording is VERY important. Note values and verify on paper ST & LT Fuel Trim, 02’s, Coolant Deg.,Timing Min/Max, F.P., Load% when Car is at the point it has the power loss. This is likely where you’ll find the issue, if the others did not yield results.
It’s important to do a Tune up and establish a baseline, along with the rest. It should cost little, Good Luck! Ill follow up with this, others may as well. John

I was out driving last night and check engine light popped on, code P0345 for camshaft position sensor A circuit bank 2, makes a lot of sense as to why is was pulling timing and all the cut in power. I've got it at chapman ford right now so they can really diagnose it and see if the sensor is just out of place or if the camshaft is blown. appreciate all your help

08GT500 · Oct 16, 2018

Ironic, A Camshaft position Sensor just went on another 2012 Mustang GT 3 Days ago. The issue finally did reveal itself, lol. Good luck!

2012-5SLOW · Oct 22, 2018

08GT500 said:
Ironic, A Camshaft position Sensor just went on another 2012 Mustang GT 3 Days ago. The issue finally did reveal itself, lol. Good luck!

turns out im burning oil, did an oil change and compression test yesterday, read 150 each cylinder so she looks good from that aspect. next step is driving it for a week while monitoring oil then doing a leak down test. any suggestions or opinions??

Hoytster · Oct 22, 2018

2012-5SLOW said:
turns out im burning oil, did an oil change and compression test yesterday, read 150 each cylinder so she looks good from that aspect. next step is driving it for a week while monitoring oil then doing a leak down test. any suggestions or opinions??

Did the dealership fix your CPS issue? Did they diagnose the oil burning issue or how did you come to this conclusion?

2012-5SLOW · Oct 22, 2018

Hoytster said:
Did the dealership fix your CPS issue? Did they diagnose the oil burning issue or how did you come to this conclusion?

they did diagnose the oil burning issue, said that was most likely the reason it threw a code for cps

Hoytster · Oct 22, 2018

2012-5SLOW said:
they did diagnose the oil burning issue, said that was most likely the reason it threw a code for cps

Interesting, I have no idea how an oil burning issue would effect the CPS in the coyote. The CPS (there are four of them) is mounted to the front of the head directly in front of the camshaft phaser and sticks up through the valve cover. They weren't saying the CPS to valve cover seals were leaking did they?

Either way, that should not effect the operation of the CPS itself. A CPS code will cause the issues you are describing, as the ECU will disable the variable cam timing as it doesn't know the actual position of the camshaft(s). I would be looking at a bad electrical connection of a failing CPS.

Hoytster · Oct 22, 2018

As another note (and this is just for your information at this point), the factory ECU will not always throw a code if it only sees an intermittent problem. Inside the ecu, there are "thresholds" that are set that must be exceeded before a check engine light gets thrown. For example, one of those thresholds that has to be exceeded for a check engine light is how many times an engine can miss before a "mis-fire detected" check engine light gets thrown. Sometimes an engine can have a slight miss and never throw a check engine light because the severity of number of "misses per drive cycle threshold" never has been exceed. I've run into this MANY times with fusions and ignition coils.

I bring this up because this could be what's happening with your CPS. The signal might be dropping out intermittently and you might not be getting any notification about it. The fact you got a check engine light means it's severe enough to warrant the light.

There are ways to test this and provide data to the dealership that proves there is an issue. I personally use a $30 Bluetooth OBDII dongle and FORSCAN software (free). With the FORSCAN, you can monitor what's called "Mode 6" diagnostics to monitor engine parameters and see issues in real time, especially issues that are not setting the check engine light. I usually use it for misfire diagnosing, but have used it to monitor many other sensors related to emissions (which the CPS sensors are).

2012-5SLOW · Oct 22, 2018

Hoytster said:
Interesting, I have no idea how an oil burning issue would effect the CPS in the coyote. The CPS (there are four of them) is mounted to the front of the head directly in front of the camshaft phaser and sticks up through the valve cover. They weren't saying the CPS to valve cover seals were leaking did they?

Either way, that should not effect the operation of the CPS itself. A CPS code will cause the issues you are describing, as the ECU will disable the variable cam timing as it doesn't know the actual position of the camshaft(s). I would be looking at a bad electrical connection of a failing CPS.

after the oil change, car seems to be running back to normal for the most part. could it simply be due to the no oil? and any suggestions regarding the loss of oil?

Hoytster · Oct 22, 2018

2012-5SLOW said:
after the oil change, car seems to be running back to normal for the most part. could it simply be due to the no oil? and any suggestions regarding the loss of oil?

The camshaft phasers are driven by oil, so yes, if the oil was really low, it could effect the operation of the phasers. Didn't even think of asking that question, how low on oil were you? I would assume you would have gotten a low oil light if it was that low though.....

2012-5SLOW · Oct 22, 2018

Hoytster said:
The camshaft phasers are driven by oil, so yes, if the oil was really low, it could effect the operation of the phasers. Didn't even think of asking that question, how low on oil were you? I would assume you would have gotten a low oil light if it was that low though.....

apparently I was down to 3 quarts which is insane

Hoytster · Oct 22, 2018

2012-5SLOW said:
apparently I was down to 3 quarts which is insane

Wow, only 5 more quarts to go But yeah, at that level, you could've had some starvation/aeration issues. Definetely keep and eye on it and keep us posted.

2012-5SLOW · Oct 22, 2018

Hoytster said:
Wow, only 5 more quarts to go But yeah, at that level, you could've had some starvation/aeration issues. Definetely keep and eye on it and keep us posted.

the best thing to do next would be a leak down test correct? compression test came back perfect

bogging??

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racerraj

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I don't dare do that to my Knob

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I don't dare do that to my Knob

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I don't dare do that to my Knob

2012-5SLOW

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Hoytster

I don't dare do that to my Knob

2012-5SLOW

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Hoytster

I don't dare do that to my Knob

2012-5SLOW

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