buying a supercharger soon...which kind should i buy?

[StangJonGT]

That's cool. Thanks for not taking offense.


Jon

 

[Zero Signal]

Remember, a typical turbo setup will hit it's max boost around 3k rpm, then the rest of the boost should be vented (bypass valve I think) from there up which is why the boost is leveled off like he said.

Generally speaking, stock turbo cars run very small turbos and achieve incredible torque and hp at low rpms, but will fall short of breath (and hp) just like a stock Mustang does--not enough airflow at higher engine speeds

That's true, but I think it's due more to the fact that the turbo is spinning so fast that it's way outside of it's efficiency range, so it's flowing air, but it's taking alot to turn it as well.

As for the lag, I don't know that that's an issue with current technology and proper turbo sizing. I've heard that alot of TT Supra guys are actually going single.


Still I say go Kenne Bell and change your gearing! But if you don't feel like changing that gear, a centri like the ProCharger or Vortech would be just as much fun

 

[88stangmangt]

if a turbo is mated right with a engine then it shouldnt have little if any lag.

 

[StangJonGT]

That's true, but I think it's due more to the fact that the turbo is spinning so fast that it's way outside of it's efficiency range, so it's flowing air, but it's taking alot to turn it as well.

As for the lag, I don't know that that's an issue with current technology and proper turbo sizing. I've heard that alot of TT Supra guys are actually going single.

I agree, which is why I said "generally speaking". As for turbo efficiency, there is much to turbo planning that I don't have the specifics on, and it can get very complicated. One must pick their hp goal, boost level, rpm boost level goal, etc...and then find a compression map that matches those parameters. The whole thing is a bunch of math and physics...which is cool, but way beyond the scope of this thread and also of my total understanding.

As for the Supra guys, yes they usually go with one large turbo, but suffer severe lag due to it.


Jon

 

[yellow1995Cobra]

How can you say that? It all depends on turbo size. If you want a turbo that will make any kind of appreciable gains, there will be associated turbo lag, due to the larger turbine needing time (and exhaust) to spool up. That is precisely the reason for a twin turbo setup--two smaller turbos = less lag and more power. As for your smaller turbo holding boost levels across the rpm range, that too is incorrect. Generally speaking, stock turbo cars run very small turbos and achieve incredible torque and hp at low rpms, but will fall short of breath (and hp) just like a stock Mustang does--not enough airflow at higher engine speeds. Blowers will make boost the higher you rev them, if it is a Centrifugal blower, not limited by displacement of blower.


Jon

An SC61 turbo, will see full boost by 2700 RPM's on an h/c 302, and maintain its power across the rpms. It supports up to 680 hp (flywheel).

If you pick the right turbo, u will have no lag(well hardly any) and have boost very low in the Rpm's. I see no reason to go twin turbo on a 302, unless your going for well over 1k hp and want some streetability.

Yes a centitrigual will make more power the higher you rev it, but they all have there limits. Your pushing your luck if your running 20#'s outa S trim. A turbo is far superior to a centrifugal without a doubt. Mainly for the area under the curve, and hardly any parasitic loss.

 

[mustang20010]

Well I went through the same debate you're going through about 8 months ago. I read and read and read, and talked to people who had various superchargers on their cars, and the one name I PERSONALLY kept hearing (for 5.0-5.8Ls that is) was Paxton NOVI2000. These things are cheap ~$3100 from MuscleMotors, plus not only with they make great power for you now, if you upgrade in the future (or if you've upgraded already) you can swap out the pulley and make some truly INSANE power with a Paxton.

Notice they do not offer an intercooler for 94-95s. There is a reason for this (sure intercoolers are great) but all else being equal I read on a site somewhere (NO it was not Paxton's site) that when comparing a Paxton, Vortech, and Procharger, at the same psi, the NOVI2000 makes considerably less heat, due do its inherent design features, thus improving overall efficiency. And if intercooling made Procharger better, a custom intercooled Paxton would be great - although not necessary.

Some things happened last year, one I was busy with work and school, two I got a little lazy, but my Mustang has sat in my garage since July. In the next few weeks as it continues to get warmer around here I'll continue work on it and get it running again (this time with the s/c). My car was built for 550-600hp, which I have very high hopes of meeting. With either 42 or 50lb injectors and an Anderson Ford Motorsport PMS handling the mixture and timing strategies, and the Novi2000 supplying ~15lbs of boost, it shouldn't be too hard to do.

Anyway wish I could give you some actual driving experience with the Novi, but in the end I think you'll make the right decision, whatever you get - reason being is because in the end you'll buy the supercharger YOU want, and that my friend is all that matters. After all it's YOUR car, not anyone elses!

GOOD LUCK! HAVE FUN!, and DRIVE (somewhat) SAFELY!

 

[StangJonGT]

An SC61 turbo, will see full boost by 2700 RPM's on an h/c 302, and maintain its power across the rpms. It supports up to 680 hp (flywheel).

If you pick the right turbo, u will have no lag(well hardly any) and have boost very low in the Rpm's. I see no reason to go twin turbo on a 302, unless your going for well over 1k hp and want some streetability.

Yes a centitrigual will make more power the higher you rev it, but they all have there limits. Your pushing your luck if your running 20#'s outa S trim. A turbo is far superior to a centrifugal without a doubt. Mainly for the area under the curve, and hardly any parasitic loss.

I completely agree with turbos being more efficient than supers. I never said they weren't--I simply said the centrifugals are very similiar to turbos--in fact, they are affectionately called belt driven turbos. Again, I will stress that a well matched turbo will give great results, hiding many of the turbo problems (lag, heat)--it just takes alot of research to get the right turbo for you application. I think everybody here is saying the same thing, just saying it a different way.


Jon

 

[TMC]

I completely agree with turbos being more efficient than supers. I never said they weren't--I simply said the centrifugals are very similiar to turbos--in fact, they are affectionately called belt driven turbos. Again, I will stress that a well matched turbo will give great results, hiding many of the turbo problems (lag, heat)--it just takes alot of research to get the right turbo for you application. I think everybody here is saying the same thing, just saying it a different way.


Jon

I don't really think we are saying the same thing in different ways. yellow1995cobra is pointing out, much like I tried to, that turbos make full boost low in the RPM range and hold that boost. Vortech, Paxton and Procharger style blower don't do that. They make more boost as a function of engine RPM which is very different than the way turbos operate.

 

[yellow1995Cobra]

I don't really think we are saying the same thing in different ways. yellow1995cobra is pointing out, much like I tried to, that turbos make full boost low in the RPM range and hold that boost. Vortech, Paxton and Procharger style blower don't do that. They make more boost as a function of engine RPM which is very different than the way turbos operate.

Yes exactly.

 

[StangJonGT]

I guess we weren't. My point is that a turbo can be mated to an engine to produce peak boost at any rpm, it just depends on your application. It does NOT always make full boost at low rpms and hold it.


Jon