C-4 problem, PLEASE Help!!!

[iskwezm]

I'm afraid I don't know what this means. I mounted the motor and tranny all together outside of the car, it seemed to go in nice and smooth. Can you explain the indexing part and how to do it? I guess I could have done something on that end...


The t/c is not new, same one I have been running for a while now. No problems before with it. I think Krash Kendall may be on to something though...

when putting on the T/C, you put it on the shaft and spin it and push in,sometimes it will drop in maybe 2 times,but it should at least feel like it slides back a couple of times on the shaft and have some drag to it.If not,it will damage the pump.The pump will leak,but it should still make the car move ay least.How many quarts of fluid did you use?

 

[Jc69Stang]

Well, here is what I did.
I had the motor on the hoist and I bolted the T/C to the flywheel first, then I grabbed the tranny and slid it into the T/C and twisted it by hand until it slid into place.

I then bolted the bellhousing to the motor.
sounds like I screwed this up. Is this reversable?
If I unbolt the tranny and seperate it from the motor can I get the T/C onto the shaft or is the damage done? I don't think it is leaking from the front at all that I can see.
I had at least a quart of fluid in the T/C.
and another 2-3 quarts in the tranny, I later added a couple more.

 

[brianj5600]

There is a good chance the tc did not engage the pump. It will likely leak once put together right. The tail shaft has the park detent in it I believe. It sounds like it is also not right. The wheels should not turn in park.

 

[iskwezm]

Well, here is what I did.
I had the motor on the hoist and I bolted the T/C to the flywheel first, then I grabbed the tranny and slid it into the T/C and twisted it by hand until it slid into place.

I then bolted the bellhousing to the motor.
sounds like I screwed this up. Is this reversable?
If I unbolt the tranny and seperate it from the motor can I get the T/C onto the shaft or is the damage done? I don't think it is leaking from the front at all that I can see.
I had at least a quart of fluid in the T/C.
and another 2-3 quarts in the tranny, I later added a couple more.

nope,thats wrong,sorry,the T/C goes on the trans,then put the engine/trans together and bolt uo the T/C to flywheel.When mine went bad(yes I did it too) it made a whine sound like a blower,but that might not be what yours will do.Usually the pump seal takes a dump and leaks.I think about 5-6 quarts it right,but less with a smaller T/C.

 

[Jc69Stang]

nope,thats wrong,sorry,the T/C goes on the trans,then put the engine/trans together and bolt uo the T/C to flywheel.When mine went bad(yes I did it too) it made a whine sound like a blower,but that might not be what yours will do.Usually the pump seal takes a dump and leaks.I think about 5-6 quarts it right,but less with a smaller T/C.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who has done this...

So if I back off the bolts to the T/C, is there any hope of getting it lined up or have I probably ruined the splines on the T/C or input shaft?
There are no funny noises, however I only have the headers installed so it is very hard to hear right now
And no leaks out of the front yet, I will tear into it on Thursday and let you guys know. Thanks again for all of the help. I think we have found the problem.

What a bummer this is.

 

[iskwezm]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who has done this...

So if I back off the bolts to the T/C, is there any hope of getting it lined up or have I probably ruined the splines on the T/C or input shaft?
There are no funny noises, however I only have the headers installed so it is very hard to hear right now
And no leaks out of the front yet, I will tear into it on Thursday and let you guys know. Thanks again for all of the help. I think we have found the problem.

What a bummer this is.

the best thing to do,i know you dont wanna hear this, but pull the trans or at least back and push the T/C while spinning it to see if it will drop down a little more.You wont know if theres any damage till you start it.At the most it would be a front pump and seal,both can be chaged by removing the trans T/C and the pump faces outward with a ring of bolts.

 

[stangbuilder66]

A friend and I did this once in his F150. It had a C6, we converted it to a 4x4, but anyways. We didn't index the T/C and put it all together. When we did it, the engine wouldn't even turn over. Turn the key and the starter would click but nothing else. We figured out what we did wrong and started to fix it. The way we did it was to pull the bellhousing to engine bolts and replace them with ones that are about 6" longer. Undo the inspection plate and remove the T/C to flywheel bolts. We were able to then slide the whole tranny back (support it with a jack too, those bolts won't hold it alone). I pushed on the T/C while he turned it by hand. It did drop back 2x I think (about 10 years ago we did this). We slid it back up, put the flywheel bolts back in, switched out the bellhousing bolts one at a time, and buttoned it all up. Got in, it cranked right up. I guess we were lucky we didn't screw anything else up, but the good news for you is that just because you did this, doesn't mean 100% that something is broken. As a side note, the truck still runs to this day with the same flywheel, tranny, and T/C...and it has seen some rough stuff.

Live and learn. Someday you will be able to pass this along to someone else

 

[krash kendall]

I recently had to slide my tranny back on the bolts to turn the t/c so the drain plug lined up with the access hole in the flex plate. Being a former chevy guy I never had to deal with this with the turbo 350 and turbo 400 I had. My starter had been hitting the flex plate every revolution making an awfull racket, soooo.....I hate to admit it.....I removed the starter and turned down the bendix gear on the end of it untill it didn't make contact unless it was fully engaged. I had to get a new starter about 6 weeks ago and decided to fix the problem instesd of modifying my new starter.

The point is:

Index t/c on tranny then index drain plug to access hole on the flex plate.

 

[Jc69Stang]

Well I'm back and still not ok yet.

I pulled the tranny, properly indexed the TC and checked the splines on the input shaft and pump, all ok, I put it all back together and still do not get into gear.

It sure seems to me that there could be a pressure problem or too much air in the tranny?
I pulled the send line to the cooler and nothing comes out,but I know the tranny is filled, (it was spilling out the overfill vent) so is there a way to burp this thing or is something else wrong?

Thanks again.

 

[krash kendall]

Have you checked the fluid level with the car running? If you fill an empty tranny and then fire it up, the torque converter will suck up most of the fluid and the car may not go into gear.

 

[mustangdave]

There is no over fill vent: there is a vent, but fluid should never come out there. The tranny probably holds about 9 qts. Could be a band adjustment issue. There are two adjustments where you torque them to a certain value, then back off a certain number of turns.
How much fluid did you put in? Did you put some in the t.q. before installing? Are you sure the t.q. didn't slip back off a click when installing (been there, done that)?

 

[TOM B]

try this. put trany in park, tires off ground and turn wheels, it should not turn, check that other tire is not going backwards. or disconnect the driveline at the rear and turn the shaft.
If it turns then you may have messed up the lock meckanism in the trany, pull the pan and fix it. like said before check that the TC is engaged in the pump, the flat spots on the TC must engage the gear on the pump.

 

[krash kendall]

Here are the band adjustments if you need them. I still think it's a T/C engagement/pump problem though,

Transmission Bands

 

[Jc69Stang]

Here are the band adjustments if you need them. I still think it's a T/C engagement/pump problem though,

Transmission Bands

Well, everything on it worked fine before all of this happened, so i think that the bands are ok,(I only pulled the tranny to get it out of my way)

I was very carefull putting it back in to not let the TC slip back off of the pump. The park mech still works, When the car is in park it does not roll, but put it in any gear and it is like it is in neutral or something. can roll forward or reverse.

The TC did have fluid in it when installed, and I checked the level while the car was running, it was ok. then I pulled the send line to see if I was circulating, and of course nothing comming out.

Help!!!

 

[Jc69Stang]

try this. put trany in park, tires off ground and turn wheels, it should not turn, check that other tire is not going backwards. or disconnect the driveline at the rear and turn the shaft.
If it turns then you may have messed up the lock meckanism in the trany, pull the pan and fix it. like said before check that the TC is engaged in the pump, the flat spots on the TC must engage the gear on the pump.

Is this possible without pulling the tranny again? You can only see so much with the inspection plate off?
I never pulled the pan, but maybe I need to now. If something in there got messed up somehow.

 

[krash kendall]

You have said a couple times now that nothing is circulating. This means the pump isn't turning. The torque converter will engage as many as three steps when spinning it back and forth before it is seated. I know this isn't what you want to here, but it doesn't matter how much you don't want this to be the problem it won't be solved with a magical "Tap with screwdriver here" solution. Hopefully the pump hasn't been damaged.

 

[Jc69Stang]

You have said a couple times now that nothing is circulating. This means the pump isn't turning. The torque converter will engage as many as three steps when spinning it back and forth before it is seated. I know this isn't what you want to here, but it doesn't matter how much you don't want this to be the problem it won't be solved with a magical "Tap with screwdriver here" solution. Hopefully the pump hasn't been damaged.

You are right, it looks like I am going to have to do this again. Thank you for all of your help folks, lets hope this time I get it right. Or I may start crying like a schoolgirl

 

[12sec67]

tom b is right, when you put the T/C on you need to turn it clockwise while pushing it into the tranny and it should click(go in) in about 3 times