Cam advice for 331 Stroker

[Robdogg67]

Ordered a 331 stroker with all forged internals and AFR 185 heads. The builder will order the raw 185 heads and cnc them based on his own recipe. The engine will include the following: 5.0 roller block, 9.8/1 compresssion, RPM airgap intake, Demon 650 vac/sec, custom longtube 1 5/8 headers with x-pipe 2.5" exhaust. The drive train will be AOD (2700-2800 stall), 3.55 trac loc rear with 26" tires. My goals and build for this combination is for all around performance, economy and reliability. It's use will be street and roadtrips. I need to pick an off the shelf or custom cam for my application and I'm dizzy after lengthy forum searches but I think I'm learning quickly. The techs at the major cam houses have given different advice everytime I've spoke to them given the same parameters, but they have all seemed to make sense with their suggestions too which is heplful but hence the confusion also. Also have "power" brakes and want med. strong idle but not too crazy. I realize that I'll sacrifice low end takeoff due to my gear ratio and 245 width "new" tires but I'd like to make it up with strong mid/top pull. I will not do EFI but maybe nitrous boost in long term growth plan, also using 1.6 rockers.

Comp has recommended the XE274HR (224/[email protected], .555/.565 lift, 112s- design for EFI but usable for carb too), the Magnum's 280H and 281HR (220/[email protected], .512/.512 lift, 110sep - more designed for carb application with 110 sep.) and maybe a custom grind version of the XE274 with a 110 separation.
Here's my rookie stab at a custom grind: 220/[email protected], .544/.560 lift, 110s.- good for 2000-6000rpm?

Let me know your ideas and suggestions, thanks!

 

[brianj5600]

I would leave it to the pro's. You have spent too much on the motor to take a chance on a cam. I'm guessing 185's need a little more help on the exhaust side.

 

[allcarfan]

I dont understand.

your builder is buying a set of non-cnc ported AFR185s? Dont they come CNC ported for a decent price already?

My vote is for the xe274hr. I dont think you could use the 282...you may not have enough stall and P2V clearance may become an issue.

 

[Robdogg67]

Allcar, I believe they buy them as ported and then work their magic on to them. What 282 are you referring to?

 

[blue66tang]

Let us know how it runs when you do figure out a cam. Are you going to run it at the strip at all?

 

[rbohm]

My vote is for the xe274hr. I dont think you could use the 282...you may not have enough stall and P2V clearance may become an issue.

x2

 

[brianj5600]

Your engine builder can port heads better than AFR, but can't pick a cam to go with it?

 

[12sec67]

you also need to portmatch the AFR's to the Air Gap intake... i have heard it can be pretty far off.

 

[Robdogg67]

Blue66tang
The car may see some track time but likely rare, I'm trying to resist the drug as I might get hooked.

brianj5600
I'm extremely confident in my builders abilities with the motor and the headwork and they can easily choose an off the shelf cam from Comp, ect.. since they don't grind cams in house. The OTS cam likely will work fine. I'm simply trying to explore the idea of going with a custom cam (from an expert of course) for any additional benefits as it will only cost me an extra $70.

I think cam selection/grinding is an art in itself and I can't think of any major builders that has all that expertise and mfg. ability in house and still offer affordability. CNC grinding equipment & software is a huge capitol investment and most of the good, affordable builders have invested in CNC machining centers over the last few years for their motor and head work. Taking on CNC grinding equipment will likely be the next step for some of them after they have paid off the other equipment to control/maintain their competitive pricing.

There are some other folks around this forum that I respect and value their opionions who have done this same thing. Guys like Socal and a couple others who have had several motors built but prefer the custom cam route because they have seen the benefits.

12sec67 - thanks for the heads up, I remember that in a thread too - advice taken.

 

[jerry S]

I was looking into getting my edelbrocks ported. I talked to the shop that did my block's bottom end to get their advice. They send the heads out for a 5 angle CNC job and the costs start at $1500. I asked whether I would get back heads that would outflow the AFR 185s and to my great surprise he said no. He said that if 100 represents the maximum you can port a head, the AFRs come 78 ported out of the box. He said not to port these heads by hand as it leaves too much open to chance. The CNC machines have optimized cuts and angles programmed into them. Unless your shop is going that route, I would be hesitant to have them screw with an already really good product.

What surprises me is that it is actually cheaper to simply buy new heads than to port what I have but I could pick up as much as 75 hp from the edelbrocks by going with the AFRs. I am really tempted.....

 

[Robdogg67]

Good points jerry. I want to clarify that the builder just "massages" the AFR's, not machine them entirely which is part of their magic to get the extra HP when compared to other builds offering similair strokers. My "raw" statement was not accurate, sorry for any confusion.

 

[stirling33]

Robdogg67 - which builder did you end up going with and what are the HP/TRQ #'s you think you are going to get out of the engine your building?

 

[D.Hearne]

I used a Ford Racing Z303 roller in my 331. Worked really well with the Canfield Heads, 1.7 rockers, and the dual plane 3x2 intake with 3 Holley 250 cfm carbs. Power came on at 1500 rpms and pulled to 6500+. Idled at 6-700 rpms, operated the power brakes at idle in the Ranger it was in. Should work similarly in yours with an RPM air gap. You might want a little more carb though. Specs on the Z cam with 1.7 rockers is .585/.585 lift, 228 degrees duartion @.050. 112 degree LCA ( if I ain't mistaken) Should work good with that stall converter too.

 

[57fairlane]

x3 for the xe274/Trick Flow stage 2.

It is a fantastic OTS cam. Had a friend with one in a 306 that was purely a street race car. Beat many a car on the motor and the spray. I think it ran a 6.30ish many years ago (4-5), once.

 

[washMO66]

In my 66 coupe that I just sold I had the XE274HR on my 347ci stroker with AFR185's that were worked over by Joe Mondello. Had 10.8 to 1 compression, port matched Vic Jr with a mighty Demon 750 carb (had 650 first then went up).

We estimated HP to be around 500 and the car ran 11.28's @ 119MPH all motor with 3:70's and a 2500 stall foot braking it. Plus you could drive it on the street all day long with very good manners....... as far as your concern about low end, can't speak for the 3:55's but with 3:70's and 245's I could start in second and burn the tires all day long. Starting in first with street tires was like skating the car had so much low end grunt, with your stroker I would not worry a whole lot about lacking torque, your extra cubes over a 302 will compensate.

I sold the car in July to a good friend and he just freshened the motor and went up to the XE282 which will spin up to 6600RPM as opposed to 6200 w/ the 274, car is currently getting painted so has not been dynoed or tracked. He also changed the stall to a 3500 and went to 4:11's and a custom carb. Will report new times in the spring when we get it to the track...

The XE274HR was an excellent cam and should fit your needs. Not to start another debate about street manners of intakes etc but I would strongly recommend thinking about a Vic Jr single plane over the air gap. I had both and the single plane would run circles around the dual....totally different car after I switched...

 

[thekid760]

Sorry about resurecting an ancient thread but:

Robdogg67: What did you end up going with? hp/tq #'s? Track times? How do you like it?

WashMO66: What did your old car run with the upgrades your buddy did to it? How's the idle, ect? HP/TQ #'s?

I'm thinking about going with a similar combo when I decide to build my engine.

 

[BLK91LX1uponu]

I ran a 331, AFR cnc'd heads with a very simular cam to the comps 224/232 setup. I ran 3:55 and a Tremec 5spd. The car was very streetable. The car weighed 3000lbs and would run in the 11's no problem. I would up your compression to 10:5 since your going to be running 91 pump gas anyways. I would also run the Performer RPM Air Gap and port match it to the AFR's before I would run the Vic jr. A nice 650 built by AED would do just fine on this motor. P.S. There is no reason to built a stout motor if you can't get it to the ground. It is fun to spin the tires at first but once you get smoked by a honda on the bottle you will be pissed. lol

 

[Robdogg67]

Holy cow, what a thread resurrection!
I ended up going with a Keith Craft 331 stroker rated at 450hp, 425 torque. I went with a Ed Curtis/Flowtech speced cam (well worth the $70) for some extra gains. I have about 600 miles on the motor with no track time yet and am real happy with everything. Also have AFR 185 heads, Demon 650 vac seconds, RPM air gap (port matched), FPA longtube headers, AOD tranny, magnaflow 2.5 with X-pipe exhaust system with 9" 3.70 gears & Tru-trac. It idles at 800rpm and runs fine but I think I'll have it Dyno tuned in the summer to ensure that I'm getting all the HP available.

 

[D.Hearne]

How do you know you got your $70 worth of "extra" gains?

 

[347Fastback]

Comp Cams XE266-HR in my 331 stroker...Very strong...