cam for a daily driver...

302fordracer · Jun 4, 2005

what is the best cam for a daily driver?? I want reliabilty foremost before power and sound and all that...reliability is the most important thing to me...it will be matched to some ported gt40 iron heads (not p)...

wytstang · Jun 4, 2005

stock everything else is hit of miss. Most cobra owners have had great success with the crane 2031.

nmcgrawj · Jun 4, 2005

I always felt that the couple extra bucks for custom was worth it. That way you get exactly what you want. If you are willing to spend the bucks, give Ed an email

final5-0 · Jun 5, 2005

I could drive mine daily if I had to but to be truthful......the Tweecer is more responsible for that than my choice of cam selection.

Later
Grady

Rootus · Jun 5, 2005

I agree with Grady -- the TwEECer is more responsible for driveability than anything else. That said, however, I might opt for a cam with 112+ LSA if I wanted something sewing-machine smooth. Lope sounds cool, but it can occasionally be irritating.

nmcgrawj · Jun 5, 2005

I got a question....

When working with the exact same combo, can you have a cam that idles like stock and make as much power as a cam that has a really lopey idle? I guess my big question is how does the idle quality affect power output?

Im just wondering for my combo with ported twisted wedge heads, tfs r intake, long tube headers, on a 357(351 bored .030 over).

final5-0 · Jun 5, 2005

nmcgrawj said:
I got a question....

When working with the exact same combo, can you have a cam that idles like stock and make as much power as a cam that has a really lopey idle? I guess my big question is how does the idle quality affect power output?

Im just wondering for my combo with ported twisted wedge heads, tfs r intake, long tube headers, on a 357(351 bored .030 over).

OK Nate

I think I understand your question and...........................

A bad azz sounding cam lope at idle does not always mean your making lots of rwhp. This is even more true when talking about street cars, lol. As a matter of fact, over the years I've seen lots of street cars that were bad azz sounding at stop lights but when the light turned green you quickly found out there was no performance to back up all that noise

If you will allow me to use my combo as an example, I can tell you what I've found out about cam lope (lets be truthful, we all love the sound) and how it effects our computer controlled cars.

I won't go into all the details of why the pcm acts or reacts to cam lope but know this....................................

I can idle down to as low as 750 rpm's and it'll really lope but over time the pcm will use its adaptive strategy to make things become more unstable during idle conditions

With just an increase of up to 800 rpm's things become better and at say about 850 rpm's things are rock solid for the pcm and even though the lope is not as pronounced, at 850 the idle doesn't purr like a kitten which is how a stocker sounds. The lope you hear causes fits with the air flow through the maf which is just one thing among others that you have to contend with when trying to tune for drivability.

Final thoughts..........

I make the same power no matter if I idle at 750 or 850 so the lope really has nothing to do with making power as I see it

Later
Grady

nmcgrawj · Jun 5, 2005

ok i think i follow you...i just didnt know if the cam designer had more "freedom" for the cam design, if you could get away with more power in the upper rpms with a rougher or not as stable idle. I guess kinda like if you run an LSA of 114 compared to 107 or something

final5-0 · Jun 5, 2005

nmcgrawj said:
ok i think i follow you...i just didnt know if the cam designer had more "freedom" for the cam design, if you could get away with more power in the upper rpms with a rougher or not as stable idle. I guess kinda like if you run an LSA of 114 compared to 107 or something

Nate

With this car I chose not to get involved with all that stuff...................

I just told Ed C what I wanted my car to do and let him deal with that

On this car......I was a weenie and took the easy way out

Later
Grady

Rootus · Jun 5, 2005

final5-0 said:
I can idle down to as low as 750 rpm's and it'll really lope but over time the pcm will use its adaptive strategy to make things become more unstable during idle conditions

The only way around that AFAIK is to force the EEC into open loop at idle. The EEC is seeing a false lean condition from all the unburnt charges and richens the mixture. And then it surges. Then it stalls.

But you already knew that... I just like to hear myself talk I guess...

Dave

nmcgrawj · Jun 5, 2005

Rootus said:
The only way around that AFAIK is to force the EEC into open loop at idle. The EEC is seeing a false lean condition from all the unburnt charges and richens the mixture. And then it surges. Then it stalls.

But you already knew that... I just like to hear myself talk I guess...

Dave

So basically what you are saying Dave is that if you run open loop at idle you can get it to idle as low as you want, well not as low but lower like at 750rpms like stated above?

I guess that is the other advantage the tweecer has over the PMS

nmcgrawj · Jun 5, 2005

One other thing, does the car need a specific amount of vacuum or anything at idle to operate correctly? Or does it running in open loop solve all those potential issues?

And running in open loop, does that mean you have to tune it on a dyno or with a wide band to get it to run safely since the computer isnt going to be adjusting it the 14.6 a/f ratio or whatever it wants?

nmcgrawj · Jun 5, 2005

one other thing What kinda of LSA's do you guys have with your Ed cams? Do they lope pretty hard at idle or do they run on the smoother side??

I am torn between wanting a smooth idle or a choppy chop chopachopachopa chop chop idle as Ed will be grinding the cam for my 351.

final5-0 · Jun 5, 2005

Rootus said:
The only way around that AFAIK is to force the EEC into open loop at idle. The EEC is seeing a false lean condition from all the unburnt charges and richens the mixture. And then it surges. Then it stalls.

But you already knew that... I just like to hear myself talk I guess...

Dave

Dave

You are so right and even though I got my idle very stable, the K's would finally drift ever so slightly over a long period of time. So yeah ...... I do admit that I finally did what all the rest of you guys had told me to do. ...... I forced OL at idle I hate to say it, but at that time, I was too stubborn to admit I could not do it my way

I was making so many changes during that time that I'd go no longer than three weeks before resetting the pcm and since my car is only a weekend toy, the adaptive did not change things at idle quick enough to let me know I had idle issues.

Later
Grady

final5-0 · Jun 5, 2005

nmcgrawj said:
ok i think i follow you...i just didnt know if the cam designer had more "freedom" for the cam design, if you could get away with more power in the upper rpms with a rougher or not as stable idle. I guess kinda like if you run an LSA of 114 compared to 107 or something

Nate

I read your post again and then I saw the real meaning of what you were asking......lots of things have been goin on tonight to distract me (it don't take a lot for that to happen with me, lol) ...... sorry I did not see things clearly the first time around.

This kind of thinking your talking about is absolutely the very thing I did when I talked with Ed C about what I wanted him to do with my cam. We talked about drivability issues with the 94-95 cars and at that time I had been lurking on all the various tuner sites for quite some time and had gained a good knowledge of what could be done to ease drivability issues with self tuning. I told Ed to go somewhat hotter with the cam specs and I'd use the Tweecer to take care of any drivability issues that came up.

Knowledge is one thing but unfortunately, at that time, experience was the thing I did not have and did not get until much later. If I was doing it all over again with what I now know ...... I'd tell Ed to go a couple more steps hotter with the specs and would enjoy a bit more power

As for the saying about a low lsa cam and 94-95 pcm's not playing nicely with each other ...... lets just say that ...... you'd be surprised at what can be done if you talk to that little silver box in just the right way

Later
Grady

302fordracer · Jun 6, 2005

man my thread got jacked...

OutLawSE · Jun 6, 2005

Stock cam with 1.7s.
Retared 2 degrees.

final5-0 · Jun 6, 2005

302fordracer said:
man my thread got jacked...

Sorry Brian

It does seem to me that you did get a bit of knowledge about what it is like to run a custom cam from folks that have done it

I'd have almost killed someone to have some stuff like this when I was making plans for my combo

You might take a look at John's (WhiteDevil) combo. He runs a 2031 ots cam and his dyno curves look really nice IMHO

Again, sorry for the hijack of your thread

Later
Grady

zenboy99 · Jun 6, 2005

My FTI custom cam worked wonders for my daily driver.

302fordracer · Jun 6, 2005

thanks for you help guys and it is no problem Grady I was mostly kidding...

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