what is the best cam for a daily driver?? I want reliabilty foremost before power and sound and all that...reliability is the most important thing to me...it will be matched to some ported gt40 iron heads (not p)...
cam for a daily driver...
- Thread starter 302fordracer
- Start date
nmcgrawj
Advanced Member
I always felt that the couple extra bucks for custom was worth it. That way you get exactly what you want. If you are willing to spend the bucks, give Ed an email
Rootus
Officially Addicted
I agree with Grady -- the TwEECer is more responsible for driveability than anything else. That said, however, I might opt for a cam with 112+ LSA if I wanted something sewing-machine smooth. Lope sounds cool, but it can occasionally be irritating.
nmcgrawj
Advanced Member
I got a question....
When working with the exact same combo, can you have a cam that idles like stock and make as much power as a cam that has a really lopey idle? I guess my big question is how does the idle quality affect power output?
Im just wondering for my combo with ported twisted wedge heads, tfs r intake, long tube headers, on a 357(351 bored .030 over).
When working with the exact same combo, can you have a cam that idles like stock and make as much power as a cam that has a really lopey idle? I guess my big question is how does the idle quality affect power output?
Im just wondering for my combo with ported twisted wedge heads, tfs r intake, long tube headers, on a 357(351 bored .030 over).
nmcgrawj said:
OK Nate
I think I understand your question and...........................
A bad azz sounding cam lope at idle does not always mean your making lots of rwhp. This is even more true when talking about street cars, lol. As a matter of fact, over the years I've seen lots of street cars that were bad azz sounding at stop lights but when the light turned green you quickly found out there was no performance to back up all that noise
If you will allow me to use my combo as an example, I can tell you what I've found out about cam lope (lets be truthful, we all love the sound) and how it effects our computer controlled cars.
I won't go into all the details of why the pcm acts or reacts to cam lope but know this....................................
I can idle down to as low as 750 rpm's and it'll really lope but over time the pcm will use its adaptive strategy to make things become more unstable during idle conditions
With just an increase of up to 800 rpm's things become better and at say about 850 rpm's things are rock solid for the pcm and even though the lope is not as pronounced, at 850 the idle doesn't purr like a kitten which is how a stocker sounds. The lope you hear causes fits with the air flow through the maf which is just one thing among others that you have to contend with when trying to tune for drivability.
Final thoughts..........
I make the same power no matter if I idle at 750 or 850 so the lope really has nothing to do with making power as I see it
Later
Grady
nmcgrawj
Advanced Member
ok i think i follow you...i just didnt know if the cam designer had more "freedom" for the cam design, if you could get away with more power in the upper rpms with a rougher or not as stable idle. I guess kinda like if you run an LSA of 114 compared to 107 or something 
nmcgrawj said:ok i think i follow you...i just didnt know if the cam designer had more "freedom" for the cam design, if you could get away with more power in the upper rpms with a rougher or not as stable idle. I guess kinda like if you run an LSA of 114 compared to 107 or something
Nate
With this car I chose not to get involved with all that stuff...................
I just told Ed C what I wanted my car to do and let him deal with that
On this car......I was a weenie and took the easy way out
Later
Grady
Rootus
Officially Addicted
The only way around that AFAIK is to force the EEC into open loop at idle. The EEC is seeing a false lean condition from all the unburnt charges and richens the mixture. And then it surges. Then it stalls.final5-0 said:I can idle down to as low as 750 rpm's and it'll really lope but over time the pcm will use its adaptive strategy to make things become more unstable during idle conditions
But you already knew that... I just like to hear myself talk I guess...
Dave
nmcgrawj
Advanced Member
Rootus said:The only way around that AFAIK is to force the EEC into open loop at idle. The EEC is seeing a false lean condition from all the unburnt charges and richens the mixture. And then it surges. Then it stalls.
But you already knew that... I just like to hear myself talk I guess...
Dave
So basically what you are saying Dave is that if you run open loop at idle you can get it to idle as low as you want, well not as low but lower like at 750rpms like stated above?
I guess that is the other advantage the tweecer has over the PMS
nmcgrawj
Advanced Member
One other thing, does the car need a specific amount of vacuum or anything at idle to operate correctly? Or does it running in open loop solve all those potential issues?
And running in open loop, does that mean you have to tune it on a dyno or with a wide band to get it to run safely since the computer isnt going to be adjusting it the 14.6 a/f ratio or whatever it wants?
And running in open loop, does that mean you have to tune it on a dyno or with a wide band to get it to run safely since the computer isnt going to be adjusting it the 14.6 a/f ratio or whatever it wants?
nmcgrawj
Advanced Member
one other thing What kinda of LSA's do you guys have with your Ed cams? Do they lope pretty hard at idle or do they run on the smoother side??I am torn between wanting a smooth idle or a choppy chop chopachopachopa chop chop
idle as Ed will be grinding the cam for my 351. 
Rootus said:The only way around that AFAIK is to force the EEC into open loop at idle. The EEC is seeing a false lean condition from all the unburnt charges and richens the mixture. And then it surges. Then it stalls.
But you already knew that... I just like to hear myself talk I guess...
Dave
Dave
You are so right and even though I got my idle very stable, the K's would finally drift ever so slightly over a long period of time. So yeah ...... I do admit that I finally did what all the rest of you guys had told me to do. ...... I forced OL at idle
I hate to say it, but at that time, I was too stubborn to admit I could not do it my way I was making so many changes during that time that I'd go no longer than three weeks before resetting the pcm and since my car is only a weekend toy, the adaptive did not change things at idle quick enough to let me know I had idle issues.
Later
Grady
nmcgrawj said:ok i think i follow you...i just didnt know if the cam designer had more "freedom" for the cam design, if you could get away with more power in the upper rpms with a rougher or not as stable idle. I guess kinda like if you run an LSA of 114 compared to 107 or something
Nate
I read your post again and then I saw the real meaning of what you were asking......lots of things have been goin on tonight to distract me (it don't take a lot for that to happen with me, lol) ...... sorry I did not see things clearly the first time around.
This kind of thinking your talking about is absolutely the very thing I did when I talked with Ed C about what I wanted him to do with my cam. We talked about drivability issues with the 94-95 cars and at that time I had been lurking on all the various tuner sites for quite some time and had gained a good knowledge of what could be done to ease drivability issues with self tuning. I told Ed to go somewhat hotter with the cam specs and I'd use the Tweecer to take care of any drivability issues that came up.
Knowledge is one thing but unfortunately, at that time, experience was the thing I did not have and did not get until much later. If I was doing it all over again with what I now know ...... I'd tell Ed to go a couple more steps hotter with the specs and would enjoy a bit more power
As for the saying about a low lsa cam and 94-95 pcm's not playing nicely with each other ...... lets just say that ...... you'd be surprised at what can be done if you talk to that little silver box in just the right way
Later
Grady
302fordracer said:
Sorry Brian
It does seem to me that you did get a bit of knowledge about what it is like to run a custom cam from folks that have done it
I'd have almost killed someone to have some stuff like this when I was making plans for my combo
You might take a look at John's (WhiteDevil) combo. He runs a 2031 ots cam and his dyno curves look really nice IMHO
Again, sorry for the hijack of your thread
Later
Grady
zenboy99
Founding Member
Similar threads
