Cams

Nagash01WS6 · Apr 12, 2004

Alright... this is what I am thinking for my setup.

AFR 185's.
Custom grind cam.
Vortech.
I havent decided on an intake / exhaust yet.

Now... I hear a lot about the 185's having PtV issues.

How thick are the pistons??? Could you take material out of them for valve clearance? Is there enough material there not to destroy the strength of the piston???

1105 · Apr 12, 2004

You just got the car and are allready planning a H/C/I setup with a blower? Where do you get this money from!

Redsnk95 · Apr 12, 2004

you will need to notch the stock pistons, I bet you'd be happy with a TFS Street heat intake and AFR 165s with a FTI cam or a AFM B31 cam.

Troy

Nagash01WS6 · Apr 13, 2004

Why would I go with the 165's vs 185's????

Is the air velocity into the head going to suffer in a 302 application with the 185 head????

I can get the 58cc or 61cc chamber on both heads...

Babyduck · Apr 13, 2004

keep the boost low, and tune safe, or you will surely kill that stock shortblock in no time.

If you were going stroker, i would see the benifit of the 185's, but on a 302/306, the 165s are a nice match.
Defintaly go with the 61cc chambers.. wana try and keep the compression down, when adding boost.
If it were me, i would build a strong motor first, then add boost, not throw high flowing heads, intake, cam, and boost to a factory shortblock.

Build the foundation first!

VibrantRedGT · Apr 13, 2004

Nagash01WS6 said:
Why would I go with the 165's vs 185's????

Is the air velocity into the head going to suffer in a 302 application with the 185 head????

I can get the 58cc or 61cc chamber on both heads...

The 185's have the 2.02 valve. You can run it on a stock 302 block but triple check your PTV clearance. The 165's are ideal for a 302.

stangboy · Apr 13, 2004

Well, I just bought a set of 185s for my stock motor(331 in future plans). I'm gonna be using the stock cam so I don't have p/v clearance issues. I'm fearing that I may not make the power I would have made with the 165s on this stock shortblock but like I said I'm planning on a 331 in the near future. I hope I get lucky and still make good power with the stock cam though. The good thing is that I might not have idling issues using the stock cam because everybody on here that puts a bigger cam in there car has idle issues until they either get a custom chip or some tpye of tuning device like an EEC Tuner or a Tweecer. I still might get a custom chip for mine even though I'm gonna use the stock cam because I want to maximize the combo. When I do the stroker and bigger cam I'll get the chip reburned.

The rest of my combo will be:
Edelbrock Performer intake
1.6 RRs
70mm TB
1 3/4" lontubes and 2 1/2" x-pipe
and everything in my sig.

Oh, my 185s have 61cc chambers

Joes95GT · Apr 13, 2004

Nagash01WS6 said:
Why would I go with the 165's vs 185's????

Is the air velocity into the head going to suffer in a 302 application with the 185 head????

I can get the 58cc or 61cc chamber on both heads...

The difference is port volumes. The 165 heads have a 165cc intake runner volume, and the 185 heads have a 185cc intake runner volume. There is also a valve size difference (1.90 v. 2.02). The 165's flow more than enough air for a 302 application. Look in old magazine tests, the torque numbers are relatively low compared to horsepower, which shows you the airflow capabilities of the heads. With a supercharger, the 165s would be perfect. Bigger is not always better.

Yes, you can notch the stock pistons, and run the 185s, but I think the gains would be minimal compared to a 165 headed car. Plus, you would have much more low end torque. I'm still a skeptic when it comes to notching the stock pistons. They are only cast, so I don't see how they can maintain there integrity and structure after a huge hunk has been taken off the top of them.

Anyway, go with the 165s. They offer much more flexibility, and give you the option of running a much larger cam - something the 185s do not.

Joe

yellow1995Cobra · Apr 13, 2004

Get the 165's. The 185's will kill your low end big time. Even with a vortech, since it makes boost with RPM's. You should email ED C and see what he tells you, and you can discuss over head combos as well, but the 165's will most likely be the top runner. IF your gonna run a kennebell blower, i would consider a trickflow 2.02 valved head, but that will limit your cam, ed will tell you all about it.

The 165 head is a perfect match to a 302, like everyone else said.

stangboy · Apr 13, 2004

I have a question guys. When everybody says that 185s will kill your low end power(whether its hp or tq), are you basing this on theory or personal experience? Basically I'm trying to figure out if this is fact or speculation. I'm not doubting you but I've seen real life put theory to shame with many different things. I know bigger isn't always better, but sometimes it helps. I don't plan to stay with my stock 302, but I want my car to perform noticeable better than it does in stock form. I know I'm gonna lose some low end power with the 185s but I hoping to be able to make up for it in the higher rpms(3500+). I know with the stock cam I probably won't make any more power after about 5800 or 6000rpms so I'm not even gonna rev it higher than that. I'm gonna freshen up my bottom end with new rings and bearings(thats all I can afford right now) me and the fellas are gonna do all the work, so I won't have to pay for labor...except a couple cases beer and Pepsi(2 of them don't drink) and pizza. Maybe I can find a cheap nitrous kit on ebay after I do the H/C/I to tide me over until I get the 331.

Joes95GT · Apr 13, 2004

No false claims here - all facts. You WILL lose low end torque with a 185 head on a stock shortblock 302. How much? No one can tell, it also depends on how tolerable you are of it. The intake runner volume is just too big to produce any type of velocity in the low RPMs. I'm guessing the car won't be the same until about 1700-2000 RPM. Putting too big of a cylinder head has the same affect as too big of a cam, or too much manifold. Imagine putting a Victor Jr. intake on a set of stock E7s. It's along the same lines...

Joe

stangboy · Apr 13, 2004

Joes95GT said:
No false claims here - all facts. You WILL lose low end torque with a 185 head on a stock shortblock 302. How much? No one can tell, it also depends on how tolerable you are of it. The intake runner volume is just too big to produce any type of velocity in the low RPMs. I'm guessing the car won't be the same until about 1700-2000 RPM. Putting too big of a cylinder head has the same affect as too big of a cam, or too much manifold. Imagine putting a Victor Jr. intake on a set of stock E7s. It's along the same lines...

Joe

I'm not worried about making power under 2500rpm. I cruise with my rpms higher than 2000. So, if you're saying I'm not gonna make power until I'm in the 2500+ rpm range then I'm not worried at all. As long as I don't make less torque than I do stock then I'll be ok.

Thanks for that info, Joe. Anybody else have anything to add to what Joe is saying? I'd really like to hear it. I'm trying to get all the facts I can get about what I'm gonna be doing. Sorry if I seem to be taking over your post, Nagash01WS6 but I figured you could use some of this info too.

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