Can I remove my thermostat?

DissFigured · Jul 31, 2005

I live in Texas where it is damn hot all the time and I have a 65 that gets hot. It tends to run arounf 95% up the tamp gage.

I took out the 180 degree tstat and was going to add a 160 degree, then it dawned on me... Why not just remove the tstat and leave it off.

Is there any downside to taking it off permanantly.

6Stang7 · Jul 31, 2005

yes, it will run hotter. without one, your coolent will flow through the radiator too fast, and not cool down as much as it should. the therm. reduceds flow enough and allows the coolent to cool down enough in the radiator. just put in a 160.

ForceFed70 · Jul 31, 2005

6Stang7 said:
yes, it will run hotter. without one, your coolent will flow through the radiator too fast, and not cool down as much as it should. the therm. reduceds flow enough and allows the coolent to cool down enough in the radiator. just put in a 160.

This is completely false.

The amount of time the coolent spends in the engine makes no difference in a closed system.

HOWEVER! Without the restriction of the thermostat, the coolent could start to "cavitate" inside of the engine. Basically, this means that you could get air bubbles from the coolent rushing through so quickly. Air bubbles don't transfer heat as well and could thus cause your engine to run hot.

With the factory water pump, this usually isn't a problem. But could definately be an issue with a high-flow aftermarket unit.

I've had a few vehicles that have had the thermostat removed, and they ran without problem.

I don't reccomend you do this tho. You engine was ment to run at a certain temperature and having the thermostat removed makes the engine temp fluctuate alot. If you believe your problem is caused by poor coolent flow, then look at a high-flow thermostat 1st. But there's no reason why you can't try running without a thermostat to see if it makes a difference. My guess is that it won't help much.

PoliceInterceptor · Jul 31, 2005

http://griffinrad.com/tips.php

68torino · Jul 31, 2005

An older non-computer motor is designed to run with a stat. The stat will keep the antifreeze from circulating to fast and not cooling. Living here in SD I've seen it time and again...no stat=overheating. Using stock cooling systems. Now that being said if you have a larger, ie more rows, radiator, extra fans, you could run into a situation where it won't warm up enough if you live in a snowbelt state. In both cases you should run a 190*-195* thermostat. I've done so in 302s, 300 sixes, 390s and 460s. They have all been quite happy and no overheating. I would also see if I had a bad pump, radiator or radiator blockage. It also helps on older Fords to run a shroud to increase cooling.
Now with a computer controlled vehicle if you run a cooler stat it will run cooler due to a more advanced cooling system. This in turn makes the computer 'see' a cold motor and leaves the fuel mixture rich which helps a stocker a little while dragging. BUT will contribute to cylinder wear due to washing off oil from the cylinders.

BB1966 · Jul 31, 2005

70 also lives in Canada,that will make a difference I would think,not near as hot there. Yes I think that the radiator would not have time to cool the water and it WILL run hot.

10secgoal · Jul 31, 2005

I would try a 190-195 first. Putting in a lower therm is harder on a cooling system. If it is not up to the task for a 180, chances are good a 160 is going to be worse.

ForceFed70 · Aug 1, 2005

BB1966 said:
70 also lives in Canada,that will make a difference I would think,not near as hot there. Yes I think that the radiator would not have time to cool the water and it WILL run hot.

Again, this thinking is flawed.

True I live in Canada, but cooling systems work the same here as they do in the states. And I actually live in one of the hottest parts of Canada. It gets hotter here than many places in the US.

Either way, the amount of time the coolent spends in the radiator doesn't matter. By your own logic... the coolent won't spend as much time in the engine and thus won't "get as hot".

I'm sorry, but the fact remains.. in a closed system the rate at which the coolent moves does not make a difference. The radiator still removes the same amount of heat..no matter how fast the coolent inside is moving. I don't know what else to say asside from "ask a HVAC specialist" if you won't believe me.

ForceFed70 · Aug 1, 2005

10secgoal said:
I would try a 190-195 first. Putting in a lower therm is harder on a cooling system. If it is not up to the task for a 180, chances are good a 160 is going to be worse.

Cooling is cooling... it depends on the radiator, the amount of airflow through it, and the temperature of the air. Changing the thermostat does not put any increase in the demands of the cooling system. The engine still makes the same amount of heat, and the radiator still removes the same amount. True, the thermostat may stay open longer, but that does not make any difference to the demands on the cooling system.

Changing the thermostat rarely (if ever) fixes an overheating problem unless there are hot spots in the engine.

rbohm · Aug 1, 2005

70_Nitrous_Eater said:
Cooling is cooling... it depends on the radiator, the amount of airflow through it, and the temperature of the air. Changing the thermostat does not put any increase in the demands of the cooling system. The engine still makes the same amount of heat, and the radiator still removes the same amount. True, the thermostat may stay open longer, but that does not make any difference to the demands on the cooling system.

Changing the thermostat rarely (if ever) fixes an overheating problem unless there are hot spots in the engine.

exactly. you have to understand that a cooling system is designed to work at a particular temperature, say 195 degrees for instance. if you remove the tstat, the system will likely run hotter as there is no restriction slowing the coolant flow through the rad, and yes the longer the coolant stays in the rad the more heat will be removed(i do have a degree in automotive technology). hvac systems are different as they use a different coolant(actually refrigerant, and work on reducing pressure on one side to remove heat from the atmosphere, and increasing pressure on the other side to maximize heat removal from the refrigerant). in hvac systems you want to heat the refrigerant as much as possible, with in reason, to aid heat removal, as you have to rely on a stationary fan to move air across the condensor. in a radiator you have a fan that moves at differeing speeds, and air that is also forced through the rad so you dont need to have higher coolant temps in the rad for better cooling. also engine coolants dont reject heat like refrigerants do, thus they need more time to reject heat, and thus need more time in the rad. the thermostat provides that time.

anyway, when you have a system that is designed to run at 195 degrees, you can install a cooler tstat, and the system will still run at 195 degrees, even though the stat opens at 160. on theother hand if you have a system that is designed to run at 160 degrees, and you install a 195 stat, then the system runs at 195 degree as the stat opens at that temp. if you want a cooler running engine, install a larger rad, with more fin area, so the system will run at a cooler temp. then install a cooler stat, 160-180 degree stat is fine.

ForceFed70 · Aug 1, 2005

rbohm said:
anyway, when you have a system that is designed to run at 195 degrees, you can install a cooler tstat, and the system will still run at 195 degrees, even though the stat opens at 160. on theother hand if you have a system that is designed to run at 160 degrees, and you install a 195 stat, then the system runs at 195 degree as the stat opens at that temp. if you want a cooler running engine, install a larger rad, with more fin area, so the system will run at a cooler temp. then install a cooler stat, 160-180 degree stat is fine.

Thanks rbohm, but this is where we depart ways.
The only part of the system that is designed to operate at 195* is the engine. The rest of the system you want to stay as cool as possible. During the winter, it's quite common to have the coolant in the radiator at below freezeing, while the engine is running a toasty 195*. When I was 16yo, my 1st car was a mustangII that the previous owner removed the thermostat from. The 1st winter I froze my arse off as the temp needle never moved from below "C", and the heater blew frosty air.

HVAC systems as in AC do work on an evaporative/compressive model, but they also have condensors to remove the heat. The refridgerant is also coolant depending at how you look at it. It's the same sort of system, just a bit more complex. The same principles apply.

RGS0907 · Aug 1, 2005

No problem if yoy take the thermostat out

On these cars, if you take the thermostat out, it will take forever to get the engine hot. & the heater will not work for a real long time. It sounds as if that is what he is trying to achieve here.

But it is a temporary fix. But you may want to check the radiator for blockage, the shroud for proper positioning & the fan clutch for spinning to freely.

Hack · Aug 1, 2005

If your engine is running too hot, a cooler thermostat won't make it run cooler. You need to make a change to the radiator, fan or shroud in order to get the engine to run cooler. When the engine is hot, the thermostat is completely open, and the radiator, fan and shroud are controlling the engine's temperature.

If your engine is running at the temperature of your current thermostat, a change to the thermostat can reduce the temperature. However, you should know that engines wear out more quickly when they are run cooler. Also, engines will fill up with sludge more quickly when run cooler.

One other thing, 70NitrousEater knows his stuff!

ForceFed70 · Aug 1, 2005

Thanks Hack.

6Stang7 · Aug 3, 2005

70_Nitrous_Eater said:
This is completely false.

The amount of time the coolent spends in the engine makes no difference in a closed system.

re-read what i said. it's not that it spends too much or too little time in the engine, it's the amount of time it spends in the radiator; and that DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE! let me refer you to Newton's Law of Cooling, which can be expressed as a differential equation.

(dT/dt)=k[T-T(s)]

where k is a constant, T is the initial temp. T(s) is the cooler temp. make a simple change of variable y(t)=T(t)-T(s). Since T(s) is a constant, you get y'(t)=T'(t) making the equation:
(dy/dt)=ky

so, the equation works as:
T(t)=T(s)+[T-T(s)]e^(kt)
k is still a constant and t is time.

65up2d8 · Aug 3, 2005

Is this Bazarro land or do we REALLY have two threads about the same stupid topic on the same page? Please, a new question!!!!! (No offense meant to the poster of this thread, but please check the posts on, at least, the first page of the forum thread you post on). Regardless, the answer to your question is, in a hide and seek game where Foghorn Leghorn plays hide and seek with a tiny little rooster whose mother Foghorn finds sexually interesting, good engineering by that little rooster can undoubtedly pinpoint the location of Foghorn regardless of the fact the little rooster might be blindfolded during the countdown on Foghorn's hiding. In addition, an engineer can undoubtedly also answer the question of whether a tree that falls in the forest with no human in audible range makes a sound; there's an equation for that I'm sure.

The rest of us are not qualified to answer such questions, however, as we have no understanding of the upper cognitive functions required for such an answer.

6Stang7 · Aug 3, 2005

which is why i re-wrote the differential equation is the form in red. the one is red requires only intermediate algebra.

DissFigured · Aug 3, 2005

Well, sorry to spark such a debate.

I replaced my tstat, and flushed the radiator and now it's all good.

jhbus · Aug 3, 2005

And it probably took you less time then reading all these posts! Which t-stat did you go with?

Joe

ps. Wow, people get MAD when they don't share the same opinion, don't they?!

DissFigured · Aug 3, 2005

I just threw another 180 in there

It dawned on me that if my car is 200 degrees and riding the max end of the thermometer, it doesn;t matter if I go 160 or 180.

If I am constantly exceeding both of those, it ain't gonna close wether I go 160 or 180.

Problem was..... (drum roll) my tstat was stuck open.

Can I remove my thermostat?

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