Can youget 300 RWHP From bolt-ons?

lover said:

Isnt' it funny how the 4.6 doesn't take to bolt ons like the 5.0. You could get a Holly Systemax package for a 5.0 and add about 75HP+, and that's just the intake, heads, and cams. Then you still have a lot more bolt ons left to install plus the stroker options.

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That won't happen with out the other bolt-ons. There is a better set of h/c/i than the systemax kit.

A 4.6L takes to boltons as well (if not better) than a 5.0L. I have owned both and around both

No a cam is not a bolt-on IMO.

300rwhp isn't possible in my eyes with just bolt-ons on a 4.6L.

280RWHP is VERY hard to come by W/O cams IMO. Its really about impossable, but some dynos are off and some people fudge #s. I dont have LTs, but im just now at around 280 with cams....I just dont see a bolton GT pulling about the same HP...unless LTs are that good lol. Ill find out because im getting them in a few weeks. Now for 300RWHP with boltons....impossable.

I'm close to the mark - missing LT headers and proper mid-pipe.

I think 300WHP is going to be out of reach unless I cam it... but I won't do that with out lower intake and head work. And buddy just before me posts a valid point... a lot of Dynos are off the mark... so who knows.

Lizardking - how close?

I think it's possible. I'm sure there are a bunch of nay-sayers but, you'll have to look beyond the standard bolt on's to do so. The typical stuff everyone does won't get you 300 rwhp. Start looking into alternative means to "free" up HP.

Hell, I have a few bolt on's and I'm already at 269rwhp 311rwtq. Then again, numbers don't mean squat if you can't put it to the ground properly or even drive worth a damn

Derrr evrybody knows to get 300 out of our cars you just need to do the valve mod! the valve mod you ask,yea just throw an extra valve or two!

According to the latest 5.0 mag using all the popular bolt ons that 300+ is very possible and that 345 is target for these bolt ons.

Not on a 4.6, the heada re just too darn restrictive. They will NOT get 345 out of a N/A 2V without headwork and intake work. I know a guy with a built High comperssion motor, stg 2 VT heads, custom cams, P51 intake with JLT RAI, and every other bolton there is....and well, he has 330RWHP. Past 300, its so hard to do anything...really past 290 it seems where everyone (2V) just stops. 4V is the way to go N/A...but bolton wise they max at around 340 it seems, cammed they are usually in the 360s...but cams are $1250 for them....

5spd GT said:

That won't happen with out the other bolt-ons. There is a better set of h/c/i than the systemax kit.

A 4.6L takes to boltons as well (if not better) than a 5.0L. I have owned both and around both

No a cam is not a bolt-on IMO.

300rwhp isn't possible in my eyes with just bolt-ons on a 4.6L.

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Yeah, I know there are better combos out there, but I was just saying that one because it is a widely advertised package. If that combo doesn't get you to 75HP, there are other ones that will. Like Brodix or AFR heads. I still have my 89GT, so I know a 5.0 takes to bolt ons way better than the 4.6. Put a MAF, 75TB, Trick Flow Intake, Trick FLow Heads and cams, LTs, mid pipe, catback on a 5.0 and I guarantee a 5.0 will outperform a 4.6 with like bolt ons even though the 5.0 is rated at 225 and the 4.6 at 260HP. And that's with a 99-04 4.6, never mind a 96-98 4.6. There are stroker 5.0s with bolt ons making 350- 375RWHP. That's 03-04 Cobra territory. Now slap a supecharger on that stroked 5.0 with bolt ons and then it's look out Cobra. And we're not even going to get into a 351 with bolt ons and a supercharger, that's for another thread.
I'm not biased because I have an 89GT and an 02GT

hotmustang331 said:

Not on a 4.6, the heada re just too darn restrictive. They will NOT get 345 out of a N/A 2V without headwork and intake work. I know a guy with a built High comperssion motor, stg 2 VT heads, custom cams, P51 intake with JLT RAI, and every other bolton there is....and well, he has 330RWHP. Past 300, its so hard to do anything...really past 290 it seems where everyone (2V) just stops. 4V is the way to go N/A...but bolton wise they max at around 340 it seems, cammed they are usually in the 360s...but cams are $1250 for them....

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Agreed. 290 is the stop box until you have to crack the engine open.

Don't shoot the messanger just relating what 5.0 magazine says but I too think they are reaching a little high for this number with just bolt ons..

In answer to a few of the questions.

Why can an engine make good power on an engine dyno yet so many cars don't seem to?

Well I think there are two sides to this:

1. Most of the engines in the mags are going to be very built with the likely hood of other mods. And remeber the mag needs to sell copies and keep the advertisers happy. Doing an article showing how little bhp an engine makes is not what people want to read.

2. Most people who do bolt ons will only do so many of them and usually scrimp on them too. I doubt there are very many FULL bolt on cars out there.

There are several ways to increase the engine out put.

1. Free up lost power because of breathing restrictions. This entails intake and exhaust modifications. However you can only do so much before the heads/cams become the restriction. So the effect of all the bolt ons will not be accumlative. After a certain point they will yeild little or no results until 'other' internal restrictions have been overcome.

2. Free up used power, such as air con, alternator, water pump, power steering pump and so on. All of these require power to operate, by removing them you should gain regardless of other mods.

3. If its rwhp you are concerned about then reducing the drivetrain loses will improve dyno figures. Of course you engine bhp will NOT have increased. Items like low friction oils, lightweight drive shafts/flywheel/gearbox components/wheels and tyres.

To do all of the above will probably cost you similar to that of a blower, thus very few people ever bother.

A stock 4.6 2v makes 56.5bhp/litre. with only basic bolt ons I doubt you can really get it much beyond 65bhp/litre, which would give you around 300bhp at the flywheel, so probably about 250rwhp, which is bang on for many people.

If you get a good tune in there and maybe above average bolt ons then I can see another 20rwhp or so but thats about it.


Also remember dyno's are VERY inaccurate and they measure differently from one dyno to another.

So a 280rwhp Stang could in all reality be producing more power than another Stang that dyno'd 300rwhp on a different day using a different type of dyno and setup.

Sure, 300 RWHP is a cinch with bolt ons. Hell, my 9# KB is a "bolt on"


Seriously, I think you can get close to it with true "bolt ons". I had 272 RWHP and 310 RWTQ with the following:

BBK LTs/BBK OffroadX/Magnaflow Catback
Steeda UD pullies
Accell Kool Blue filter
Accufab 75mm TB
Accufab plenum

See this:
http://www.modulardepot.com/?show=articlesdet&aid=38

Remember, this is with the factory tune. I could have tested a true CAI and maybe found 5-10 more HP, remember, during that test I was running the Accell filter with the factory snorkel in place.

Matt

According to the latest issue of 5.0 you can. They put on the usual boltons and got 300hp at the wheels; I personally don't believe them though.

03trubluGT said:

Seriously, I think you can get close to it with true "bolt ons". I had 272 RWHP and 310 RWTQ

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yeah but what dyno, and to what bhp standard.

If it was a Dynojet then you may have seen nearer 250rwhp on a Mustang dyno, 300rwhp suddenly seems a lot further away.

Plus the more bolt ons you have, the less effect you'll get from the next ones.

Lets put it like this nobody yet has gotten 300 rwhp from bolt-ons, that I know of at least. I think with full bolt-on's including a P51 intake and cams you could do it, but with just bolt-ons and no cams IDK if anybody has even reached 290 rwhp. KenB is only making 366 rwhp and that is about as built as you are going to get.
I dont even see why people bother with mustang dyno's, there load bearing so the results can be tampered with easily.

Sick96Stang said:

Lets put it like this nobody yet has gotten 300 rwhp from bolt-ons, that I know of at least. I think with full bolt-on's including a P51 intake and cams you could do it, but with just bolt-ons and no cams IDK if anybody has even reached 290 rwhp. KenB is only making 366 rwhp and that is about as built as you are going to get.

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You make some good points. 366rwhp is probably pushing on for 400bhp at the engine which is probably all the 4.6 is good for as a street engine with increased cc or FI.

Sick96Stang said:

I dont even see why people bother with mustang dyno's, there load bearing so the results can be tampered with easily.

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However you then add a STUPID comment like this?

They will be no more easily tampered with than on any other dyno.

Do you know what a dyno is for?????????????????????????????????????

I bet you think its just for giving rwhp numbers

A dyno is a tool, not a measure!​

They are used for tuning. Both can do a good job but with the Mustang it gives a truer representation of the car on the road, thus it should be easier to produce better/more accurate tunes from it.

But these 2 types of dyno are not the be all and end all, infact they're not even the only types out there.

Many would put a dyno like this, above the capabilities of either Dynojet or Mustang:


Its called a Rototest dyno, and because it bolts to the hub it eliminates the inaccuracies that can be caused by the tyres and rims.

Read your magazines and understand that they help to sell products. Go to stang sites and see what people really get and make your decision on mods. If 30 people get between 270-290 rwhp with all bolt on's( cams are not bolt on's) then you have a better guage to go by than an article in a mag. Their numbers are almost always higher.
What about this. If Ford had put 60mm MAF and 60mm TB on the stock GTs, then we could upgrade to 80mm and 70mm and see huge gains from just bolt ons.
You can't really compare the 5.0 and how it responds to bolt on's . It is a different animal.

300bhp/ton said:

You make some good points. 366rwhp is probably pushing on for 400bhp at the engine which is probably all the 4.6 is good for as a street engine with increased cc or FI.


However you then add a STUPID comment like this?

They will be no more easily tampered with than on any other dyno.

Do you know what a dyno is for?????????????????????????????????????

I bet you think its just for giving rwhp numbers

A dyno is a tool, not a measure!​

They are used for tuning. Both can do a good job but with the Mustang it gives a truer representation of the car on the road, thus it should be easier to produce better/more accurate tunes from it.

But these 2 types of dyno are not the be all and end all, infact they're not even the only types out there.

Many would put a dyno like this, above the capabilities of either Dynojet or Mustang:

Its called a Rototest dyno, and because it bolts to the hub it eliminates the inaccuracies that can be caused by the tyres and rims.

Click to expand...

Yes I think dyno's are just for giving rwhp #'s Is that why I have got my car dynoed and tuned twice because I just think it gives rwhp #'s? Is that why I went and got it DYNO TUNED instead of ordering a mail order chip? Anybody who knows anything at all about dyno's knows that it can be used as a tuning device as well as a wheel horsepower measurer. Mustang dyno's are load bearing dynos. Meaning you input the weight of the vehicle, were as a dynojet you dont input the weight. It is very easy to tamper with a mustang dyno due to that fact, because that can have a very big impact on the results. A dyno is a measure, its measures your horsepower, its also used for tuning, its not one or the other its both. I have a buddy who says he saw a bone stock eclipse dyno 500 rwtq on a mustang dyno, IDK I didn't see it for myself but he really has no reason to just make this up for some random reason.

I'm at 262/300 with shortys, catted x, slp and aluminum driveshaft on a mustang dyno. I'td be possible with cams and a good tune, not too many more basic boltons to do to my motor.