cant hold idle after novi install & injector swap

See "Help me create the Surging Idle Checklist" at http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=698148
for help with your idle problems. The first two posts contains all the updates to the fixes. I continue to update it as more people post fixes or ask questions.

What are all the other mods done to the car. Are you running an adjustable fuel pressure regulator? if so whats the fuel pressure set at? Are you running a FMU with the blower setup? What size MAF and injectors are they? Removing the Air pump and related equipment is quite easy...but remember might not be able to pass inspection afterwards.

Bump...

big blower for a bone stock car eh? Are you running a FMU or AFPR? Fuel pump?

Danish88GT said:

was just thinking! i boke a bunch of those really crappy plastic lines for the smog pump, do you recon that might be why its acting up? i've taped them back together using repair line and such but they are in pretty bad shape! is it enough to eliminate the smog pump??

Click to expand...

if you broke the lines and DIDNT plug them up, there's your problem.

A FMU is the fuel management unit, it increases the fuel pressure as the boost increases. An AFPR is an adjustable fuel pressure regulator it replaces the stock fuel pressure regulator so you can adjust the fuel pressure. I think you need to fix all those vacuum leaks before you do anything else.

This may help you find the no start cause...

Cranks OK, but No Start Checklist for Fuel Injected Mustangs

Revised 06-May-2007 to update PIP sensor information

All text applies to all models unless stated otherwise.

Note: 94-95 specific changes are in red

1.) Remove push on connector from starter solenoid and turn ignition switch on. Place car in neutral or Park and set the parking brake. Remove the coil wire from distributor & and hold it 3/8” away from the engine block. Jumper the screw to the big bolt on the starter solenoid that has the battery wire connected to it. You should get a nice fat blue spark.
Most of the items are electrical in nature, so a test light, or even better, a voltmeter, is helpful to be sure they have power to them.
No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) MSD or Crane ignition box if so equipped
B.) Coil
C.) TFI module
D.) PIP sensor in distributor. The PIP sensor supplies the timing pulse to trigger the TFI and injectors. See paragraph 5A - a noid light will tell if the pip is working by flashing when the engine is cranking.
E.) No ECC or computer power - ECC or computer relay failure
86-93 models only: ECC relay next to computer - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires
94-95 models only: EEC or PCM power relay in the constant control relay module. Look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
F.) No ECC or computer power - fuse or fuse link failure
86-93 models only: Fuse links in wiring harness - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires. All the fuse links live in a bundle up near the starter solenoid.
94-95 models only: 20 amp EEC fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
G.) Ignition switch - look for 12 volts at the ignition coil red/lt green wire.
H.) Computer
J.) Engine fires briefly, but dies immediately when the key is released to the Run position. Crank the engine & when it fires off, pull the small push on connector (red wire) off the starter relay (Looks like it is stuck on a screw). Hold the switch in the crank position: if it continues to run there is a problem with either the ignition switch or TFI module. Check for 12 volts at the red/green wire on the coil with the switch in the Run position. Good 12 volts, then replace the TFI.

See the following links for wiring diagrams...

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/16/71/3c/0900823d8016713c.jsp for 79-88 model cars
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 86 model http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d80167158.gif
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 87 model http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d8016715e.gif
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 88 model http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d80167162.gif

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/19/59/5a/0900823d8019595a.jsp for 89-93 model cars
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 89-90 cars http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d8019595f.gif
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 91-93 cars
http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d80195960.gif

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/1d/db/3c/0900823d801ddb3c.jsp for 94-98 model cars

2.) Spark at coil wire, pull #1 plug wire off at the spark plug and check to see spark. No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Moisture inside distributor – remove cap, dry off & spray with WD40
B.) Distributor cap
C.) Rotor
D.) Spark Plug wires
E.) Coil weak or intermittent - you should see 3/8" fat blue spark with a good coil

3.) Spark at spark plug, but no start.
Next, get a can of starting fluid (ether) from your local auto parts store: costs a $1.30 or so. Then pull the air duct off at the throttle body elbow, open the throttle, and spray the ether in it. Reconnect the air duct and try to start the car. Do not try to start the car without reconnecting the air duct.

Two reasons:
1.) If it backfires, the chance for a serious fire is increased.
2.) On Mass Air cars, the computer needs to measure the MAF flow once the engine starts.
If it starts then, you have a fuel management issue. Continue the checklist with emphasis of fuel related items that follow. If it doesn’t, then it is a computer or timing issue: see Step 4.

Clue – listen for the fuel pump to prime when you first turn the ignition switch on. It should run for 5-20 seconds and shut off. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the EEC test connector and jump the connector in the Upper RH corner to ground. The EEC connector is near the wiper motor and LH hood hinge.


If the relay & inertia switch are OK, you will have power to the pump. Check fuel pressure – remove the cap from the schrader valve behind the alternator and depress the core. Fuel should squirt out, catch it in a rag. Beware of fire hazard when you do this. In a pinch, you can use a tire pressure gauge to measure the fuel pressure. It may not be completely accurate, but you will have some clue as to how much pressure you have. If you have any doubts about having sufficient fuel flow/pressure, rent a fuel pressure test gauge from the auto parts store. That will tell you for sure if you have adequate fuel pressure.


4.) No fuel pressure, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Tripped inertia switch – Coupe & hatch cars hide it under the plastic trim covering the driver's side taillight. Use the voltmeter or test light to make sure you have power to both sides of the switch
B.) Fuel pump power relay – located under the driver’s seat in most stangs built before 92. On 92 and later model cars it is located below the Mass Air Flow meter. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
C.) Clogged fuel filter
D.) Failed fuel pump
E.) 86-90 models only: Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Orange/Lt Blue wire on the fuel pump relay.
91-93 models only Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
The fuse links for all model years 86-93 live in the wiring harness near the starter solenoid.
94-95 models only: 20 amp fuel pump fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the Dark green/yellow wire on the constant control relay module.
F.) Engine seems to load up on fuel and may have black smoke at the tailpipe. Fuel pressure regulator failed. Remove the vacuum line from the regulator and inspect for fuel escaping while the pump is running. If fuel is coming out the vacuum port, the regulator has failed. Check the regulator vacuum line for fuel too. Disconnect it from the engine and blow air though it. If you find gas, the regulator has failed.


5.) Fuel pressure OK, the injectors are not firing.
A.) A noid light available from any auto parts store, is one way to test the injector wiring.
The noid light plugs into the fuel injector harness in place of any easily accessible injector. Plug it in and it will flash if the injector is firing.
B.) I like to use an old injector with compressed air applied to the injector where the fuel rail would normally connect. I hook the whole thing up, apply compressed air to the injector and stick it in a paper cup of soapy water. When the engine cranks with the ignition switch on, if the injector fires, it makes bubbles. It is cheap if you have the stuff lying around, and works good too.
D.) Pull an injector wire connector off and look for 12 volts on the red wire when the ignition switch is on.
E.) No power, then look for problems with the 10 pin connecter (salt & pepper shakers at the rear of the upper manifold).
F.) No power and the 10 pin connections are good: look for broken wiring between the orange/black wire on the ECC relay and the red wire for the 10 pin connectors.
G.) TPS voltage exceeds 3.7 volts with the throttle closed. This will shut off the injectors, since the computer uses this strategy to clear a flooded engine. Use a DVM, a pair of safety pins, and probe the black/white and green wires to measure the TPS voltage. It should be .5-.99 volts with the key on, engine not running. Note that if the black/white wire (signal ground) has a bad connection, you will get some strange readings. Make a second measurement using the battery post as the ground to eliminate any ground problems. If the readings are different by more than 5%, you may have a high resistance condition in the black/white signal ground circuit.

6.) Spark & fuel pressure OK.
A.) Failed IAB (no airflow to start engine). Press the throttle ¼ way down and try to start the car.
B.) Failed computer (not very likely)
C.) Engine ignition or cam timing off: this is only likely if the engine has been worked on recently).
D.) Firing order off: HO & 351 use a different firing order from the non HO engines.
HO & 351W 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Non HO 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
E.) No start when hot - Press the throttle to the floor & try starting it if you get this far. If it starts, replace the ECT.

Fuel Pump Troubleshooting for 86-90 Mustangs

Clue – listen for the fuel pump to prime when you first turn the ignition switch on.
It should run for 5-20 seconds and shut off. To trick the fuel pump into running,
find the ECC test connector and jump the connector in the lower RH corner to
ground.

If the fuse links are OK, you will have power to the pump. Check fuel pressure –
remove the cap from the Schrader valve behind the alternator and depress the
core. Fuel should squirt out, catch it in a rag. A tire pressure gauge can also be
used if you have one - look for 37-40 PSI. Beware of fire hazard when you do this.

No fuel pressure, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Tripped inertia switch – press reset button on the inertia switch. The hatch
cars hide it under the plastic trim covering the driver's side taillight. Use the
voltmeter or test light to make sure you have power to both sides of the switch

B.) Fuel pump power relay – located under the driver’s seat in most stangs built
before 92. On 92 and later model cars it is located below the Mass Air Flow meter.
C.) Clogged fuel filter
D.) Failed fuel pump
E.) Blown fuse link in wiring harness.
F.) Fuel pressure regulator failed. Remove vacuum line from regulator and inspect
for fuel escaping while pump is running.

The electrical circuit for the fuel pump has two paths, a control path and a power
path.

The control path consists of the inertia switch, the computer, and the fuel pump
relay coil. It turns the fuel pump relay on or off under computer control. The
switched power (red wire) from the ECC relay goes to the inertia switch
(red/black wire) then from the inertia switch to the relay coil and then from the
relay coil to the computer (tan/ Lt green wire). The computer provides the ground
path to complete the circuit. This ground causes the relay coil to energize and
close the contacts for the power path. Keep in mind that you can have voltage
to all the right places, but the computer must provide a ground. If there is no
ground, the relay will not close the power contacts.

The power path picks up from a fuse link near the starter relay. Fuse links are like
fuses, except they are pieces of wire and are made right into the wiring harness.
The feed wire from the fuse link (orange/ light blue wire) goes to the fuel pump
relay contacts. When the contacts close because the relay energizes, the power
flows through the contacts to the fuel pump (light pink/black wire). The fuel pump
has a black wire that supplies the ground to complete the circuit.

Remember that the computer does not source any power to actuators, relays
or injectors, but provides the ground necessary to complete the circuit. That
means one side of the circuit will always be hot, and the other side will go to
ground or below 1 volt as the computer switches on that circuit.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) &
Stang&2Birds (website host)

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91eecPinout.gif

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds



Now that you have the theory of how it works, it’s time to go digging.

Look for 12 volts at the Orange/Lt. Blue wire (power source for fuel pump relay).
No voltage or low voltage, bad fuse link, bad wiring, bad ignition switch or ignition
switch wiring or connections. There is a mystery connector somewhere under the
driver’s side kick panel, between the fuel pump relay and the fuse link.

Turn on the key and jumper the fuel pump test connector to ground as previously
described. Look for 12 volts at the Light Pink/Black wire (relay controlled power
for the fuel pump). No voltage there means that the relay has failed, or there is a
broken wire in the relay control circuit.

Check the Red/black wire, it should have 12 volts. No 12 volts there, either the
inertia switch is open or has no power to it. Check both sides of the inertia
switch: there should be power on the Red wire and Red/Black wire. Power on the
Red wire and not on the Red/Black wire means the inertia switch is open.

Pump wiring: Anytime the ignition switch is in the Run position and the test
point is jumpered to ground, there should be at least 12 volts present on the
black/pink wire. With power off, check the pump ground: you should see less
than 1 ohm between the black wire and chassis ground.

The Tan/Lt Green wire provides a ground path for the relay power. With the test
connector jumpered to ground, there should be less than .75 volts. Use a test
lamp with one side connected to battery power and the other side to the
Tan/Lt Green wire. The test light should glow brightly. No glow and you have a
broken wire or bad connection between the test connector and the relay. To test
the wiring from the computer, remove the passenger side kick panel and
disconnect the computer connector. It has a 10 MM bolt that holds it in place.
With the test lamp connected to power, jumper pin 22 to ground and the test
lamp should glow. No glow and the wiring between the computer and the fuel
pump relay is bad.

If all of the checks have worked OK to this point, then the computer is bad. The
computers are very reliable and not prone to failure unless there has been
significant electrical trauma to the car. Things like lightning strikes and putting
the battery in backwards or connecting jumper cables backwards are about the
only thing that kills the computer.

You did reset the computer after changing MAFs, right?