Can't start Mustang...strange electrical gremlin?

[quent]

Hi all, first post here.

I have a 1967 convertible Mustang with a 289. The motor is slightly modified. C4 tranny.

Battery is charged good. When I try to start it, it clicks once and then nothing happens. If I try again, nothing happens at all...no click, no lights on the dash, nothing. If I disconnect the battery and reconnect it, I get the same thing that happened above. First try I get a click, then nothing after that.

Any ideas? Disconnected wire somewhere? Short?

 

[GDTrumbo]

Sounds like the starter relay or solenoid. I always went back to Ford or NAPA for these kind of parts with my old '66. Had problems with aftermarket relays.
Would be a good time to replace the battery cables as well. Get the good 4 gage ones with the integrated terminals. The "splice on" terminals kinda suck.

GT

 

[quent]

Is the relay the unit that is mounted on the innner fender with all of the wires going to it? I also believe that this piece has a direct wire to the starter.

 

[Tim65GT]

quent:
Is the relay the unit that is mounted on the innner fender with all of the wires going to it? I also believe that this piece has a direct wire to the starter.

Yes

If you have or can borrow a voltmeter, see what the battery voltage is before and during the attempted cranking.

A battery that is fully charged doesn't necessarily mean that it is a good battery. If it has just one bad cell, the initial charge can drop down to nothing when a load is put on it.

 

[6Stang7]

You can "test" to see if it is the starter relay. First, make sure that the clicking noise you hear is coming from the starter relay itself. If it is, then get a screw driver and jump the battery post on the starter relay with the post next to it (post 1 to post 2). If this gets the starter to turn over, then you might need a new starter relay.

If that doesn't get the starter to turn over, then get a long piece of metal tubing and a hammer. Position the tubing so that it is on the starter motor, and then while someone tries to start the car, hit the tubing with the hammer so that you jar the start motor. If this works, then you need a new starter motor.

Let us know if either works.

 

[quent]

I have a new one now. Haven't installed it yet but I wanted to ask about the number of wires going in and out of this thing. I have 7 wires coming from the "1" terminal listed above. I can account for 2 extra there by the addition of a mini starter and electric fan.

The issue I see is I can barely get the nut on with all of those eye holes. Any fixes for that before I put the new relay on?

 

[Az Pete]

You could go to radio shack and get a fuse panel of some type that you run one power in and multiple power wires out. This also puts all those circuits on fuses for safety.

 

[quent]

Ok, I swapped in a new relay and it is doing the exact same thing. Battery is good...any other ideas? Could there be a short?

 

[D.Hearne]

How do you know the battery is good ? Just because it's charged ? It could have a short internally that will cause this very thing. Try using another battery.

 

[quent]

Ok. I'll give that a try and report back.

 

[quent]

Different battery tried...same result. Both batteries tested good. It makes a click but I don't think the click is from the starter...maybe the relay? Then the whole thing dies and I need to reset the battery.

 

[D.Hearne]

You've got a bad ground somewhere. You need a solid ground cable from the engine to the battery.

 

[68Blue302Coupe]

I just went through something simillar. On my car, the starter was grounding out on the headers (starter cable post was touching the header). Check that, and if it is touchy, pulling the starter and cut a little off the post with a Dremel tool or something. Or get a mini-starter. That fixed it for me.

Also, its worth unbolting you engine and firewall ground cables and cleaning the ends with steel wool or sand paper. Also make sure there is no paint or rust between the cable end and the engine, this can interfere with ground.

If your starter cable is worn out, that may need replacing, too. Could have a break internally or something.

 

[Tim65GT]

Then the whole thing dies and I need to reset the battery.

???

You mean recharge? If just a few clicks is killing the batteries you tried, then there is something wrong with your batteries. A fully charged battery should be smoking the cables, solenoid or starter before its dead.

I agree with D.Hearne and 68Blue302Coupe about the cables. Make sure they are in good shape and the connections are clean.

A couple bolts and you can remove the starter. Hook it up with some jumper cables to see if it spins free without any bad sounds.

If all checks out, it may be a cable, but that doesn't usually kill batteries.

 

[quent]

Wow, thanks for all the leads for me. I'll get started tomorrow and report back.

Tim65GT...what I'm saying is that when I turn the ignition key I hear a single click (doesn't sound like the starter). Then the whole system is dead...no dash lights, no starter action or click...nothing. The only way to get it back is to disconnect the battery and reconnect it. Then I can go through the problem listed above.

 

[BarnStang]

That sounds exactly like a cable with the terminal end corroded. Are the battery cable ends that go on the battery molded on or are there two bolts that clamp the end of the cable in the terminal? I bet if you wiggle the cable hard enough you will get the battery to "reset" as you describe or the ends will fall out of the terminal ends...

 

[2+2GT]

I ran across one recently that sounded like yours. Worked my way down to the starter, everything else checked out. Tried to tweak the starter cable nut tighter, and it turned easily. Too easily. Someone had overtightened it, and the threads were stripped at the bottom, by the cable end. Easy to do, since the post is copper. I spent a few minutes cutting a stud connector to create a 3/4" tall nut, and it tightened to spec. Starts perfectly. Way cheaper than a new starter.

 

[quent]

That sounds exactly like a cable with the terminal end corroded. Are the battery cable ends that go on the battery molded on or are there two bolts that clamp the end of the cable in the terminal? I bet if you wiggle the cable hard enough you will get the battery to "reset" as you describe or the ends will fall out of the terminal ends...

Two bolts clamp the ends of the cables. I'll undo those and refasten.

 

[quent]

Problem found.

It was the negative battery cable clamp end. I ended up removing the clamp and trimming a new end on the cable. Reinstalled the clamp and hooked it up. Started fine.

Not sure if I should redo the ends with a molded version or keep the clamps.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[Tim65GT]

Not sure if I should redo the ends with a molded version or keep the clamps.

You can't redo the ends. You have to replace the cables. The molded end cables are not that expensive and are more sealed from the corrosive out-gassing that occurs during battery re-charging.

The cable clamp type battery terminals are ok for a quick fix, but the exposed open end of the cable acts as a wick and the corrosion will work it's way right into the cable. Eventually you will have the same issue.

You can avoid this by frequent battery and charging system maintenance. Clean the area with mixed baking soda and water. Just don't let it get in the battery cells because it neutralizes the sulfuric acid. You want to get the external part of the battery, terminals, tray and any surrounding metal. Rinse it good, and then apply grease on the outer part of the terminals. Don't put it on the inner terminals or posts where the terminals attach. This will help keep the corrosion from building up.

Get a cheap voltmeter and check your charging voltage. It should be between 13.5 and 14.5 volts anything higher and it will overcharge causing excessive out-gassing and subsequent corrosion.

Congrats on fixing your classic Mustang.