Can't wait any longer. Gotta spill the beans

10secgoal · Jun 10, 2006

I'm at the block limits, and plan to go over them pretty soon. Been thinking a long time about a mod motor in my 67. Well I have an offer on the table I can't refuse. A 40k mile longblock from a lightning. I'm about 90% sure I'll go this route. After looking at dart shortblocks and the price of mod motors and all the junk needed to fit them, I kinda let the idea go until this offer. the guy tells me it's exclty the same dimensionally as a 4.6, it's just stroked. I haven't kept up on anything modular over the past few years. I just need some pics of to room up front to know if I can turbo this thing or not. If I can fit one, it's a go for sure. They love boost, that's for sure. So after the cost of a new short block, i figure I can actually do this much cheaper, and just plain be different. Yes, it will be carbed.

57fairlane · Jun 11, 2006

Lame. Mud motors are terrible.

Never seen a turbo in a classic but a guy around here (Gene Wilson) runs a 5.4 navigator motor in a fox. Very nice install and apparently makes ~600 rwhp on 93.

BullittStangV8 · Jun 11, 2006

Mod motors do love boost. The issue here is that the lightning 5.4 is not the same motor as the 4.6 but just stroked. It is taller then a 4.6. however, you can put a 5.4 on 4.6 motor mounts, like a 351 can mount on 302 mounts..Also, the internals of a lightning are not bullet proof. If you are going to turbo it, and make some serious boost, you will need to forge that set up.

68stang351 · Jun 11, 2006

I'm pretty sure a 5.4 is taller and wider than a 4.6, kinda like a 351w and a 302.

I remember a mustang mag putting a 5.4 in a 99+ stang, and having to make spacers to take up the space between the stock 4.6 intake and the heads of the 5.4 because the 5.4 was wider, which would also mean it was taller, since they are both 90 degree V8s.

I'm not an expert by any means, but I would definitely check into it for sure with a ford dealer or something.

LUCAFU1 · Jun 11, 2006

yeah lightning motors are weak and will spit a rod out faster then a stock gt 4.6 will (maybe at the same time). fiting a turbo will be tight but anything can be done with time and money. if you build the shortblock up then you will be set and have a monster on your hands.

Dark Knight · Jun 11, 2006

Do you have the mustang II front end? The 4.6 is wider than a 460... and the 5.4 is wider than that.

BIG-MAC · Jun 11, 2006

You are in for much, much more that just an engine swap. Your shock towers have to go which means the entire front suspension needs to be replaced with a MII style like Dark Knight mentioned. I think once you consider the cost (especially so if you pay someone else to do the work) of this you would be better off building a windsor based blower motor.

allcarfan · Jun 11, 2006

10secgoal....

What year lightning motor? If 02 and down, they have a real problem with spitting spark plugs. You have to torque them down nearly everymonth.

The rods are also the weakest link. Id say you could safely go to the 450 mark on one of them.

I will give you a call this week now that things have settled down here. I have some plans drawn up for an intake/intercooler system for a lightning...they might be able to help you out.

BullittStangV8 · Jun 11, 2006

I say just build and forge a 302 or 351 based motor. You will be able to make the same/if not more power, and not need to modify the front suspension/engine bay. The cost of modding the front suspension and shock towers takes away all the savings you would get from getting a great deal on a used 5.4 lightning motor.

iskwezm · Jun 11, 2006

most of my freinds build mods and the cost is WAAAAYYYYYYY more then a pushrod, not to mention all the chassis mods you'll need. Another thing i noticed is not everybody can build a mod motor that will last, from what i have seen/heard its not as easy as putting a pushrod together.

good luck

StangDreamin' · Jun 11, 2006

allcarfan said:
10secgoal....

What year lightning motor? If 02 and down, they have a real problem with spitting spark plugs. You have to torque them down nearly everymonth.

No, you don't. Torque 'em once to exactly 13 ft-lbs and hope for the best. Just don't under-torque them or they'll back out; don't overtorque them or you're likely to strip the few threads the spark plug holes have.
So far (74k on the odo), I'm not one of the approx 0.01% (yeah, 1 out of every 10,000) that's had a plug spit out.

The rods are also the weakest link. I'd say you could safely go to the 450 mark on one of them.

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember hearing that Lightning motors along with the Ford GT supercar motors were the only 5.4's without the powdered iron rods. You might check this one, though.
If I'm wrong, I'd be a little "spooky" about going much beyond 350-400 horse. But, then again, my '02 F150 4x4 is destined to haul things, not @$$!

Except for the "bling" factor, I can't imagine why anybody would want to go through all the work/money to stuff a 5.4 in a vintage Stang; when you could put a nice built Windsor (like on a World "Man o' War" block) would do better for the same or less total cost.

10secgoal · Jun 11, 2006

I think you guys are thinking of stock 5.4's. These are 8.5-1 fordged bottom ends. the guy I'm getting this motor from just ran high tens in a 5500 truck and drove it home. I wouldn't waste my time if it were the junk rods in a 4.6 (GT). I know it's not a straight swap. I'm not looking for the bling nearly as much as just a cheaper alternative to a aftermarket block. The heads are expensive for these, but everything but headgaskets and head studs are going to be stock. I want the technology(even though it's with a carb), and the strength. Probably get the block and everything later this week.

10secgoal · Jun 11, 2006

dang it....

StangDreamin' · Jun 12, 2006

10secgoal said:
I think you guys are thinking of stock 5.4's. These are 8.5-1 fordged bottom ends.

Okay, so I was right about the lightning rods.

the guy I'm getting this motor from just ran high tens in a 5500 truck and drove it home.

Wow! My Lariat weighs just that much and it's a 4x4 S'Cab!

I wouldn't waste my time if it were the junk rods in a 4.6 (GT). I know it's not a straight swap. I'm not looking for the bling nearly as much as just a cheaper alternative to a aftermarket block.

But you're going to eat up those cost savings with the MII kit.

The heads are expensive for these, but everything but headgaskets and head studs are going to be stock. I want the technology(even though it's with a carb), and the strength.

Well the Lightning used the same heads as the common 5.4's pre-'02; so you're still gonna have the "six sparkplug thread heads". That "just ain't all that strong". I know it sucks, I'm trying to build something with enough torque to haul around a 3-horse + tackroom trailer; and it still sucks. Whatever made Ford's collective knowledge base think this cammer motor was an effective replacement for the Windsor????

LUCAFU1 · Jun 12, 2006

stock L's bottom ends are junk, dont let anyone tell you different. my buddies spit a few rods out after adding a pulley and a port. THEY ARE NOT LIKE THE 03-04 COBRAS. now if you ment that your friends 5.4 is built then GO FOR IT. the IFS kit is cool and its not hard to do. I cut my strut towers out yesterday and now i just have to grind =)

mtbdoc · Jun 12, 2006

After looking at the cost of aftermarket blocks, I pondered several options. In the end, I have gone with a '69 351W block from a builder I trust. I just can't see the weight and cost of doing a mod motor CORRECTLY...but heh, it's your car!

180 Out · Jun 12, 2006

If I recall correctly the "Mustang in Black" -- built by DVS Restorations http://www.dvsrestorations.com/mib.html and featured in Mustang & Fords -- proceeded at first by trimming the shock towers and retaining the OE control arms. That mod was sufficient to fit a 4.6 into a '68. They switched to a Fox strut conversion for reasons I don't recall. I don't know if shock tower trimming would be enough to fit a 5.4, but I would call DVS and ask. If it's not, then DVS would be able to put you on track to do the Fox conversion, which has got to be cheaper than the Rod & Custom or Heidt's M II kits.

I agree with the others, though, that the cammer is not nearly worth the trouble. A turbo 385 series of 514 cubic inches would be tons cheaper and make tons more power.

10secgoal · Jun 12, 2006

I'm not doing it if it's going to require a MII front end. That will defeat the purpose here. I did talk to DVS toady and he thinks it's possible because it is taller. Although wider. It being taller, puts the head at the higher part of the shock tower, with possibly less to trim.
180 out..it might make more, but I don't want to buy a motor for big bucks, then spend the money to go fast. If I can get a stock lightning motor to fit, then I'll leave her stock and run the piss out of it.

blk 02 · Jun 13, 2006

10sec... I dont think you will have alot of problems as far as the sides will be concerned however the problem you'll have is hood clearance. A couple of people droped a lightning motor in a 99+ GT and they ended up needing a 6" cowl hood. the lightning motor is tall. you could get away with a smaller cowl if you swap the lightning blower for a cobra one. But I say go for it... But I'm a pro-mod motor guy though...

Graham

steel1212 · Jun 13, 2006

blk 02 said:
10sec... I dont think you will have alot of problems as far as the sides will be concerned however the problem you'll have is hood clearance. A couple of people droped a lightning motor in a 99+ GT and they ended up needing a 6" cowl hood. the lightning motor is tall. you could get away with a smaller cowl if you swap the lightning blower for a cobra one. But I say go for it... But I'm a pro-mod motor guy though...

Graham

Something tells me he isn't going to need a blower

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