Car cranks but doesn't start

BlackVert · Jan 19, 2010

Sometimes, the car cranks for 20-30 seconds before it starts. Other times, it starts right up. Today, it cranked and would not start. I was at a gas station after having driven it for 20 miles. After about 5 cycles of "crank (about 20 seconds) and sit (about 20 seconds)", it still did not start, so I walked next door to McDonalds to get breakfast. When I came back about 15 minutes later, it started up in about 5 seconds.

What the @#$!?

Thoughts?

Hef5.0weisen · Jan 19, 2010

man o man...I just went through the same stuff

what I experieced; started then died, would start sometimes. Left it in the parking lot, live to fight another day.

How I fixed it...went with a PIP (re-man'd dizzy first). trying to get the timing right and through t-shooting, killed the battery. Jumped it off my other car, in the process fried the CCRM, guess it didn't like the voltage. Could tell because the fuel pump quit priming. Swapped CCRM. got the fuel pump back, and got combustion, albeit backfiring, but I was on the right track. Came back another day with the trusty timing light, tried lining up 0 on the balancer for TDC, discovered the balancer was spun. Pulled #1 plug turned till compression stroke, aligned the pointer, fired right up. Drive it around to charge the battery, got to the same red light it died at before, and bam died again. Towed it back to the house that night (friends were back in town) Got to looking again found the plug at the dizzy to harness wasn;t a good fit, went to NAPA, got a PIP swapped em out, good to go. Timed ran like a champ. Next morning no start. Rode the motorcycle that day....got put on alert to go to Haiti, came home packed bags, had time to mess with car. Easier with a partner to chack for spark sans remote start switch, wife cranked it, had injector pulsing, no spark. Jumped my Crane Hi-6, turns out took a dump in the process as well ( it was bypassed in the early t-shooting)
All good now, runs very strong, reliability restored.

all in all......if you got an ignition box, bypass it, check for injector pulsing take a 12v test light {5 bucks at a parts store}, hook it to a ground then poke an injecotr wire, should flash (while cranking)..injectors are firing. Check for spark...pull a plug wire, shove a screwdriver in there, ground it somewhere and crank it, should see spark, neither of those...Look at a the PIP. If you're not familiar the PIP tells the 'puter where the timing events are at, ie "hey computer, the rotor is passing number 1, fire the injector and shoot some spark at #1"'. If it craps out, which seems common, the 'puter gets confused and says "F$^% Off, I'm not doing $h1&, walk Motha F&cker"

that sums up alot of searching I did on here and reading through the Haynes manual....good luck. Egg Mcmuffin...to ease the mind...

BlackVert · Jan 19, 2010

thanks. i'll start digging.

man i love those sausage, egg and cheese bagels with hash browns

HISSIN50 · Jan 19, 2010

If you're out and about and it takes a dump on you again: when it won't start try pulling the SPOUT connector.
If it fires up, put the SPOUT back in and see if it fires up. Report what happens.

As for injector testing, there is always constant 12V key-on. It's the ground that's modulated. Use a noid light across an injector connector (don't poke the insulation).

I like to use an old plug to check spark. This way you can control the gap, which makes evaluating spark color more meaningful (anything but blue spark is useless).

Checking spark, injector pulsing and fuel pressure when it craps out is always good. Pull the codes as well.

94GTCoupe · Jan 19, 2010

is this the same post as on corral?
if so,the car in question is not a stang,but a chevy caprice i think.

BlackVert · Jan 19, 2010

yeah, sorry, its a caprice. stupid car. i was thinking maybe i should start by pulling the distributor cap and seeing if the contacts are worn or covered with carbon or something bad.

the spark plugs are pretty new (1000 miles at most) as are the wires.

Venom351R · Jan 19, 2010

TFI module getting hot and then not wanting to start

99FiveOh · Jan 19, 2010

Do chebbies even have TFI modules? I'm all thumbs when it comes to GM electronics. They have their own brand of no-startingness.

BlackVert · Jan 19, 2010

i tried to get to the distributor. it is way back near the firewall and there is really no way to get the cap off even to see if the contacts are worn. and forget trying to replace it.

WTF?

at least i was able to take the air filter housing apart and it smelled very much like raw fuel. i think it is probably too rich to start.

99FiveOh · Jan 20, 2010

i don't think worn dizzy cap terminals are going to cause a no start. It's funny how many suggestions like this people get with a no start when these issues would not be the cause of any no-start condition.

Remember, a motor can run and drive without 1, 2 or even 3 cylinders firing! And I seriously doubt cap terminals could cause any more than that many cylinders to drop at the same time. Same goes for injectors. Either they are all working or all not working in which case would point to whatever is controlling them as the culprit. If one injector was dropping off, the car would still run.

Chads95GT · Jan 20, 2010

what year caprice? if its an early 90s, 91,92,93,94 you might want to check the ignition module

BlackVert · Jan 20, 2010

sure enough, it is an early 90s

where is this ignition module?

Chads95GT · Jan 20, 2010

its underneath the distributor cap. you have to take the cap off and then there are two little bolts that you have to undo and there are 3 plugs that plug into it.

BlackVert · Jan 20, 2010

oh.

well forget that then. i'm sure you know where the distributor is on those cars. why did they put them way back there behind the engine up against the firewall? how the hell is one supposed to get that off?

Chads95GT · Jan 20, 2010

haha yeah, ive changed a few of those modules for my dad. it can be a pain, but its not really that bad. i think there is two screws for the cap and then two for that module. its tight but the cap will come right off, you might need to unplug a spark plug wire on the drivers side closest to the firewall. it will give you more room to move the cap. it beats unplugging all the wires at the cap and then trying to remember where they all go.

why did you say "well forget that then"? lol are you not going to try to replace the module?

BlackVert · Jan 20, 2010

i was looking at it, and it looks like there is not going to be any way for me to get that cap off. the one bolt is fairly accessable (being on the engine side), but the other one on the other side (behind the cap near the firewall) looks to be impossible to get to. first off, i can't even see it, and secondly, there is almost no space for any kind of socket or wrench to get to it. i'll take a pic of it tomorrow.

maybe i'll try it, but i am not looking forward to it.

maybe i've just become a tired old man, but the pain that it is sure to cause me cannot possibly be worth it.

Chads95GT · Jan 20, 2010

use a 1/4 drive extension and a short 6point socket, it shouldnt be but hand tight. and your right, you have to do the firewall dist. cap all by feel.

lol on a side not, maybe tackling this project will make you feel young again. lol jk

HISSIN50 · Jan 21, 2010

IIRC a 5.5 MM socket fits those cap screws. A 1/4" drive swivel/universal socket will help too.

How do you know it's the module?

BlackVert · Jan 21, 2010

Chads95GT said:
use a 1/4 drive extension and a short 6point socket, it shouldnt be but hand tight. and your right, you have to do the firewall dist. cap all by feel.

lol on a side not, maybe tackling this project will make you feel young again. lol jk

i'll look into it tonight. gotta take the stang's alternator to be checked out over lunch.

HISSIN50 said:
IIRC a 5.5 MM socket fits those cap screws. A 1/4" drive swivel/universal socket will help too.

How do you know it's the module?

we don't know if it's the module or not ... chad suggested checking it

what could i do if it is too rich? when i took the air filter cover off, a smell of raw gas was very noticable. or maybe that is normal for these cars (because the injectors are up near the throttle plate)?

Chads95GT · Jan 21, 2010

well any luck? yeah im not positive its the module, i just know from personal experience that its worth checking. my dads car would act up the same way. he would come out from work and it would just crank crank crank. he would wait 5 mins and it would start right up. then other times it would shut off on him while coming to a stop at a stoplight. we replaced the module and it seemed to fix his problems. so hopefully it is something easy like this for you

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