Car Dying - Changed TFI - What now?

sc mustang · Mar 24, 2009

Just bought 94 GT. 347 stroker.

Brought it 360 miles home without a problem. First day home the car dies when coming to a stop. Absolutely will not start. Has spark. Has fuel pressure. Changed TFI. Started up and drove great for 10 minutes then same thing. Dies when slowing down like someone just turned the ignition off. Won't restart.

Seen other posts similar but TFI seems to solve problem. Didn't in my case? Any experience with this problem because I'm stumped.

toyman · Mar 24, 2009

sc mustang said:
Just bought 94 GT. 347 stroker.

Brought it 360 miles home without a problem. First day home the car dies when coming to a stop. Absolutely will not start. Has spark. Has fuel pressure. Changed TFI. Started up and drove great for 10 minutes then same thing. Dies when slowing down like someone just turned the ignition off. Won't restart.

Seen other posts similar but TFI seems to solve problem. Didn't in my case? Any experience with this problem because I'm stumped.

TFI is not usually a problem with the SN95's. You might want to do a search looking for references to PIP and stator. Seems to be a common fault as you described.

95Vert383AOD · Mar 24, 2009

+1 On PIP.

There needs to be a sticky on diagnoseing the PIP/ Stator/ TFI issues.
theres at least 3 threads running related to this right now!!!

One of them was mine i think.

HISSIN50 · Mar 25, 2009

Welcome to the boards!

When it acts up and will not start, if you had spark, it's not the PIP or TFI or coil.

Check your fuel pressure and check for injector pulsing.

Pull codes. Does it have or need a chip/tune to accomodate mods?

Good luck.

sc mustang · Mar 25, 2009

It does apparently have a Diablosport Revolution Chip. All these extra electronics are killing me.

I will search forums for the other issues - thanks for the help. If I figure it out - I'll post.

Have to say - more than a little dissapointing to have a new car that I haven't been able to drive. Its spent the first 5 days either broke alongside a road or in a parking lot.

The fuel pump does come on just for a minute when ignition is engaged the first time. Should I register fuel pressure on the gauge when the pump primes? Seems I only get it when the starter is turned over

99FiveOh · Mar 25, 2009

The PIP sensor is only 25 bucks. And they ALL go out eventually in these cars. I was testing good spark too on mine some of the times it wouldn't start. And then magically it would start and be ok for a little bit.

I say change it! There really isn't too many other things that'll cause this "out of the blue" no start/stalling condition on these cars. If you need help installing the PIP, let us know, someone has a link to a good write up with pics.

BlackVert · Mar 25, 2009

usually a PIP or stator issue looks like this ...

when not warmed up, the car starts up and drives normally
then at some point after the car is fully warmed up, it dies for no apparent reason
after letting it sit a while and cool off some, it starts up and drives again
then it may die again after getting hot again

here is what is going on when that is the problem:

over time, the PIP sensor in the distributor can lose its resistance to the heat of the engine. then, when the sensor gets hot enough, it fails. after it fails, when the car sits for a while, it cools off enough to be able to start working again.

replacing the sensor solves the problem, but in order to do that, you either have to have a special press or tool to remove and replace the gear in the distributor. that is why some people opt to simply replace the distributor.

so ... does it sound like you have the PIP problem?

sc mustang · Mar 25, 2009

Its very close to what you describe. The only difference is that it doesn't start after sitting for a little while. It did start after sitting 2 days (multiple tries in between) - ran for 10 minutes then died again - now its dead in the water again. I let is set for 6 hours last night and it wouldn't start.

I guess its an MSD distributor because it definately has an MSD distributor cap. All the ignition parts look new but I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean much.

BlackVert · Mar 25, 2009

hmmm, that doesn't smell too much like a PIP problem to me. 10 minutes is probably not enough time for the underhood temps to get high enough. and it wouldn't start even when cold.

just curious ... do you have one of those MSD multiple spark boxes ... like a MSD 6AL? i have heard that people have had issues with those too, specifically MSD ones, causing weird ignition related problems.

just another thing to check ...

HISSIN50 · Mar 25, 2009

MSD cap doesnt equal an MSD distributor. You should show pressure after the prime-out.

99FiveOh · Mar 25, 2009

To get one thing straight, my car would sit for a couple days and not start as well. FULLY COLD! I would mess with stuff, probe this, unplug and plug that in, etc. then it would finally catch and run. Sometimes mine would go a few days without issues, then all of the sudden... DEAD!

I changed my PIP sensor for the second time and it now runs perfect! No more shutting down out of the blue.

And you can buy MSD dizzy caps and rotors as a kit right from your local auto parts house.

sc mustang · Mar 25, 2009

Car Dying Randomly - Next Steps

It is an MSD distributor (I checked) but there isn't any MSD ignition box.

I guess I have to decide whether to change the PIP or replace the whole distributor so now I have the following additional questions:

First, what does PIP stand for? What does it do? I did do a search on this but couldn't find what I was looking for.

Is the term "dizzy" just short for distributor?

Second, can this truly be done at home if I have a good bench vice? I could use a link because once again I couldn't find a good thread on this using search.

Would you guys just replace the whole distributor?

If so - is there a specific distributor I should be considering?

Here is the setup in the 94 GT

5.7L CHP 347 Stroker Engine
Engine Tuned with Diablosport/Revolution Chip
Pro-M 77mm MAF
Edelbrock 70mm TB
Edelbrock Performer RPM II Intake Manifold
Air Flow Research (AFR) 185 heads
Anderson Ford Motorsports B-21 CAM

Thanks for the help - I'd be toast without it.

toyman · Mar 25, 2009

[

QUOTE=sc mustang;7853450]It is an MSD distributor (I checked) but there isn't any MSD ignition box.

I guess I have to decide whether to change the PIP or replace the whole distributor so now I have the following additional questions:

First, what does PIP stand for? What does it do? I did do a search on this but couldn't find what I was looking for.

PIP Profile Ignition Pickup

Is the term "dizzy" just short for distributor?

Yes

Second, can this truly be done at home if I have a good bench vice? I could use a link because once again I couldn't find a good thread on this using search.

Would you guys just replace the whole distributor?

If so - is there a specific distributor I should be considering?

Sometimes it's just easier to replace the distributor. The PIP (stator) can be replaced at home as some have done. You will need a way to remove and press the gear back onto the distributor shaft.

BlackVert · Mar 25, 2009

i can't answer all the questions, but i'll answer what i can ...

sc mustang said:
First, what does PIP stand for? What does it do? I did do a search on this but couldn't find what I was looking for.

I'm 99% sure it means Profile Ignition Pickup. It provides a signal to indicate when the crank is in a given position.

sc mustang said:
Is the term "dizzy" just short for distributor?

yep

sc mustang said:
Would you guys just replace the whole distributor?

that is what i would do

sc mustang said:
Here is the setup in the 94 GT

5.7L CHP 347 Stroker Engine
Engine Tuned with Diablosport/Revolution Chip
Pro-M 77mm MAF
Edelbrock 70mm TB
Edelbrock Performer RPM II Intake Manifold
Air Flow Research (AFR) 185 heads
Anderson Ford Motorsports B-21 CAM

sounds dang stout. but is it a 5.7L or a 347? 5.7 liters 351 cubic inches ...

sc mustang said:
Thanks for the help - I'd be toast without it.

:SNSign:

99FiveOh · Mar 25, 2009

351's are actually 5.8's sir!

And here's the link to the information on swapping the pip:

How-To: Rebuild Your Distributor and Replace the Stator

sc mustang · Mar 25, 2009

Its a 347 - from a 302. When it runs... its a dream

Guess I'll just get a distributor - Just replace the MSD that is there ? ..... or is there one that anyone would suggest?

BlackVert · Mar 25, 2009

The_Mustang said:
351's are actually 5.8's sir!

And here's the link to the information on swapping the pip:

How-To: Rebuild Your Distributor and Replace the Stator

lol i guess i wouldn't know ... mine is more like 6.7L

just get a msd one and be done with it. 10 minutes to replace it

99FiveOh · Mar 26, 2009

I'd say go with a stock replacement. I've heard bad things and read about them here and other boards about MSD distributors. May Suddenly Die isn't a nickname given lightly!

sc mustang · Mar 27, 2009

Maybe getting closer

Thanks for all the help on this issue.

Went to local Autozone to check on replacement distributor. Although they didn't have one in stock - they did have the magnetic pickup part for my current MSD distributor (PIP) so we went ahead and bought that and rebuilt the distributor last night. Thanks a million for the link to the distributor rebuild thread - wow did they do a great job on that - it was amazing help.

Before pulling the distributor - I did find that if I pushed on the harness that goes into the distributor - I could make the car start every time. I was pushing right at the rubber boot that goes through the distributor wall. I don't think this was a coincidence because the car hasn't started in 3 days and I made it start 5 times by doing this.

Distributor is back in car but we had to stop last night because of time. I'll have to re-time the engine because I moved the distributor before I got it marked (damn!). I think the previous owner said he had it at 10 degrees. Does that sound like a good setting?

I'll post in the next couple days to ensure anyone having similar problems has a full thread to follow. Hopefully I'll have good news to report.

BlackVert · Mar 27, 2009

sounds like good news to me

the computer assumes it is at 10* with the SPOUT (SParK OUTput connection) disconnected, so make sure you disconnect the SPOUT before you set the timing. it is a little "squareish" grey plastic thing near the TFI. looks like this

Car Dying - Changed TFI - What now?

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