Carb vs. EFI help me decide what to do.

[Must5a0angGt86]

ok, I have started a couple threads of recent to try and figure out what I am going to do with the 89' Notch that I just bought. It has been coverted from efi, to carb'd but still has a 302 in the engine bay. I was originally going to convert it back to efi because I had bought a complete 302 from an 89' a few months back that came with the whole electrical and computer. I then thought about all the work involved in reconnecting all of the wires correctly and it just seems like it can turn into a huge headache. So I then thought to just pull the engine and do the 351 swap. The only problem with that is do do it right, the way I want to do it is going to cost a pretty penny, and I was trying to get this done before spring, and just don't feel like spending a ton of money on it. So what I was thinking is rebuild my 302 with forged pistons new bearings, etc. Buy nice aftermarket aluminum heads, afr's trickflows(because it is my understanding that they will fit the 351W block right?) Buy good intake and carb(I know the intake is not able to be reused on the 351). Put all of that on the rebuilt 302, drop it in and go, seeing as the car is already set up for a carb. Drive that around and have fnu with it while I build up a real nice 351 short block, accumulate that parts to do the swap amd do it all over next winter. I just think that it would definitely be cheaper and be able to enjoy the car if I do it this way. My question is if you take two engines equipped with the same components, with the exception that one is carb'd while the other is fuel injected, what will the power difference be, if any? Does anyone in here have an answer to this? this will probably be the decideing factor for what i am going to do with this car so any helpo would be great! Thanks a lot guys.

Josh

 

[blown5.0]

well I assume emissions is not a concern at all. if thats true then stick with the carb setup, they are alot cheaper to play with and easier to tune. if you had the same cid motor, same heads, etc one with a performer rpm intake and 650 carb and one with a performer rpm efi intake and say a 70mm tb, same cam, the efi setup would make a bunch of torque and ok power, while the carb would make a bunch of hp and ok torque. in the end they probably would make similar power but the carb is way cheaper and easier. stick with the carb. and as for the 351 forget it. a 302 with a right h/i/c and carb can make big power, around 400-450hp is as easy as bolting on the right parts.

 

[jrichker]

All out race car = carb

All out street car that goes to the track but must pass emissions = EFI.

Car that does some race and some street, no concern about emissions = carb.

EFI engines are not hard to tune or work on. You just need to really understand how it works. For some help in that area, here's a book that will get you started with how the Ford electronic engine control or "computer" works.

Ford Fuel Injection & Electronic Engine Control 1988-1993 by James Probst :ISBN 0-8376-0301-3.

It's about $20 from Borders.com see http://www.amazon.com/ . Select boo...very good, and I found it to be very helpful.

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

call me old school but carb all the way. I love technology and all that but i also love simplicity. blown5.0 is totally right that you can make huge power with carbs for tons and TONS less than it'll take with EFI.

Think about this:
EFI intake and mass air, injectors, everything needed to feed air and fuel can easily cost well over 1000 bucks. That's not counting a chip for tuning and the cost of all that.

You can have a kick ass Barry Grant Street Demon carb for around 400 bucks which will support loads of power, match that to a nice intake of your choice at around 200 bucks and you're set, and that's with very nice parts that will support power upwards of 500hp with no problem at all. Not to mention, you can tune it yourself. You get less wiring mess, less stupid sensors to deal with and a cleaner engine bay.

One more added bonus: After a few years (or months) when you tire of the amount of power you make, you can get a roots style blower that sits up on top of your block and out your hood that looks crazy cool and has less restriction and takes in fresher air that an EFI supercharger. The choice is obvious

 

[Must5a0angGt86]

85_SS_302, I did exactly what you did. I just added up all the crap that i bought when i had my other mustang that was efi, and for the top of the engine, not even including the heads it was over $1000. So i looked at the crab setup's and they were about half of that so that was the first thing that made me think about doing that. That is also the same style carb that i am looking at, and i want to get either trickflows or afr's to finish it off. I know that i am going to get a lot of moans and groans about this one, but I do have to pass every two years, do you think there is any way at all to get it to pass. I mean I have the smog pump, i have the H-pipe w/ cats. I have all the emissions garbage, so is there any way to play with it to get it to pass? I know that there are carbs out there that must have to pass emissions. I mean if you have any mustang until 85' you are going to have to pass right? Don flmae me or anything, lool, but is there any way to pass with the carb setup? becasue i really do want to do this know because i thought of all the money that i could save to invest in other parts!

Josh

 

[blown5.0]

well if you have to go to a state run place or any inspection station were you dont know them you will fail automatically because 1989 was suppose to have efi not a carb. but if you can get someone to not look at your equipment and just run the smog test then a carb setup without any smog junk except for cats would pass the sniffer.

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Well man i cant help much there, as i live in a county without emissions tests. If you go with a stock cam that'll help, and if you're going to run turbo or something it wont effect your emissions all that much. Some guys run a small stock sized carb for the test and swap it out for their prefered carb later? it's a lot of work but only every 2 years. I'm not sure if porting has any negative effects on emissions either, only sure about the heads and carb.

 

[Must5a0angGt86]

I think i messed up before a psted a new thread instead of my reply, lol. But i will type my reply again i guess. In CT we don;t have state run emissions stations anymore. The tests are now run through many private garages around the state. I have a friend that owns a garage one town over so I am not worried about passing the visual. I just need to pass the sniffer because i do not believe that there is any way around that. i think that the results of that test go straight to the state, I could be wrong though. I don't think that swapping the carb out every two years is that big of a hassel so if I must do that then so be it. I was just more interested in having the car pass the emissions test with the carb'd setup. Any other help on this amtter would be great. Thanks a lot guys.

Josh

 

[5.0 Drop Top]

I'm no techie but if this is a daily driver, in the long run... wont the extra efi price make up for the gas it saves compared to the carb?

 

[DirtyD916]

im no technical expert either thats why i would go efi. Just less of a headache in the long run in my oppinion. Sure you can tune carb easier and quicker but how often do you tune? Dont you drive it on the street more often?

 

[rx7speed]

to me EFI is the way to go
yes carb is easier to tune on a cheaper budget

but EFI does have many more pro's

generally better gas mileage (though carbs don't do too bad)
better torque generally
if you run a huge cam and heads the signal to the carb might be a little weak for daily driving
flatter powerband can generally be had by a EFI setup
stuff like that

 

[blown5.0]

all good points....if your on a budget and want some power than carb is the best route, and since you have it already you wont have to pay to convert. but if you got the money than efi has alot more advantages like better mileage, more torque, etc.

but a nice carb setup would pass the sniffer no problem. most any heads will work, most any intake will work, most any carb will work as long as it is tuned good and is not too big for the motor, ignition only helps, any exhaust will work as long as you have some high flow cats, basically the camshaft and cats are the critical areas, the cam cant have too much overlap and duration, but one of the smaller compcams extreme energy with cats would pass the sniffer.

just depends on what you want.

 

[Must5a0angGt86]

As far as gas mileage is concerned, there really is no concern. It is not going to be a daily driver at all. Just nice dry days in the spring ans summer, plus i work a ton so I really won't be able to drive it everyday even if I wanted to. I do realize that the efi has its advantages, and the carb has its advantages as well. I was just more worried about passing emissions. I also want to make sure that my carb setup won't be a dog compared to the same setup on an efi engine. That has become my new biggest concern. There have not been a ton of good things said about the carb'd cars so I was just curious if there was that big of a difference. Great replies guys, I appreciate the help. Any other input would be great. Thanks a lot.

Josh

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

carbs rule

Sure it's a Chevy motor in a Chevelle, but geezus it's cool. Cant really get that sort of thing from EFI. (squint your eyes and pretend the distributor is in the front)