Chip Tech-Talk

[Brascorpion]

Okay I am new here so once again I appologize if this has been covered.

Okay I have read most of the stuff regarding the new technology that has been put into the new 05 engine.

The three valve stuff, the new Varible timing stuff, the way the computer contols fuel, duration, and lift.

So this really brought up some thoughts...are there people out there (aftermarket guys) still making aftermarket chips.

I remember that Plug and Play chips used to be a way to get more performance out of the mustang. Is this old technology?

Is this still going on and if so will the new stang get a new chip?

 

[spectravp]

Okay I am new here so once again I appologize if this has been covered.

Okay I have read most of the stuff regarding the new technology that has been put into the new 05 engine.

The three valve stuff, the new Varible timing stuff, the way the computer contols fuel, duration, and lift.

So this really brought up some thoughts...are there people out there (aftermarket guys) still making aftermarket chips.

I remember that Plug and Play chips used to be a way to get more performance out of the mustang. Is this old technology?

Is this still going on and if so will the new stang get a new chip?

Yes, this is still going on. And, depending upon what you buy, can really add some punch to your Stang. Especially in the automatics. As I understand it, the stock chip decreases horsepower at the shift points to make the shift smoother. The aftermarket chips put that horsepower back. Makes for a rougher ride, but well worth it. I am 110% confident that there will be chips for the 05.

You can check this out too, if you like: http://kennebell.net/accessories/dualswitch-chip/dual-switchchip.htm

 

[Brascorpion]

Cool Deal

I knew CHIP change outs were big back when the 5.0 was released and the Iroc Z's (i think 87-91). It was pretty much the simplest way to get that additional performance without tearing mechanical things apart.

For most of my life I have owned street rods that have been older than the 70's so I have always been a 4 barrell carb with Tunnel-ram guy.

So in October I plan on buying the 05 "Automatic" and was interested in the Chip Swap possibilities. On alot of the Auto shows on TV you don't hear much about chip swapping anymore.

Usually they bolt up a Mallory Ignition, change the exhaust, include a cold air intake and then maybe mess around with the fuel delivery system.

I want to get about 350 to 380 horses out of my stang. That's the plan anyway.

 

[351CJ]

OK guys, this will be a bit technical.

Don't get your hopes up on a "chip" for the 2005 Mustang. The 2005 Mustang uses a new and different PCM system than the 99-04 used. The old PCM system held engine and transmission calibration data in fixed memory locations. The new PCM system uses dynamically alocated memory based on the code build.

So, in other words, you will not be able to just stick a chip on the 05 PCM because there is no way to know which memory locations hold the data that you want to change.

There will be limited tuning ability through the ODBII port in terms of F/A ratios, etc. and that is all, until someone successfully de-compiles the code.

Ford has mentioned that they recognize this effectively kills the ability to put on power adders and has mentioned that Team Mustang is considering working with Ford Racing to make revised PCM code availble for power adder applications through FRPP, but they have not comitted to it.

 

[Brascorpion]

Man that is a total bummer.

So essentially it sounds like your saying that thing like transmission shifts (automatic) has its own dedicated Memory chip or code.

Same with fuel, ignition timing and so on.

I am sure that if Ford releases the code somone in the after market arena will make a chip.

 

[spectravp]

OK guys, this will be a bit technical.

Don't get your hopes up on a "chip" for the 2005 Mustang. The 2005 Mustang uses a new and different PCM system than the 99-04 used. The old PCM system held engine and transmission calibration data in fixed memory locations. The new PCM system uses dynamically alocated memory based on the code build.

So, in other words, you will not be able to just stick a chip on the 05 PCM because there is no way to know which memory locations hold the data that you want to change.

There will be limited tuning ability through the ODBII port in terms of F/A ratios, etc. and that is all, until someone successfully de-compiles the code.

Ford has mentioned that they recognize this effectively kills the ability to put on power adders and has mentioned that Team Mustang is considering working with Ford Racing to make revised PCM code availble for power adder applications through FRPP, but they have not comitted to it.

It's a computer program. Period. Anything can be done. The aftermarket accessories industry is a multi-billion dollar a year business. Someone will capitalize upon it. It just takes R&D, time & money. It could be that it will take a while, they could be or probably will be more expensive than what we are currently used to, but they will be there.

Forget about just the chip on its own... if chips can't be added than how does that affect Ram Airs, Superchargers, etc etc...? Every supercharger kit I see comes with some sort of chip set... Companies like Kenne Belle are not about to just sit there and lose business...

 

[Brascorpion]

Well here is a little clip that I copied from the STANG.NET web-page.

Ford’s modular engine architecture lets Mustang share its aluminum heads with the new, 5.4-liter, three-valve Triton V-8 of the F-150, benefiting manufacturing efficiency. The heads in the F-150 and Mustang GT engines even share the same part number, including camshaft. However, sophisticated electronic controls, including the ability to regulate camshaft timing, allowed Ford powertrain engineers to tune both engines quite differently to achieve their individual missions.

The Mustang’s torque curve is steeper and peaks at 315 foot-pounds at 4,250 rpm. The Triton delivers more total torque, at 365 foot-pounds, with peak torque coming in more quickly at 3,750 rpm.

The 4.6-liter, three-valve MOD V-8 engine has the same cylinder bore diameter as the 5.4-liter, three-valve Triton, but a much shorter stroke – 3.54 inches vs. 4.17 inches. This gives it free-revving performance characteristics well-matched to a performance car.

So it looks like there are already computer mods (aka chips) out there. Or at least they are tuning several different engines within their new 2005 product line with different modules.

Especially when your talking about 2 different engines with the same BORE. The only difference between the 4.6 and 5.4 is the stroke. This means everything from the BLOCK DECK up can all be the same. Same Heads, Cam, Intake, Headers, Ignition...everything.

Only time will tell...at least I know that the CHIP swapping method is still a viable one when looking for more performance.

 

[TomServo92]

Well here is a little clip that I copied from the STANG.NET web-page.



So it looks like there are already computer mods (aka chips) out there. Or at least they are tuning several different engines within their new 2005 product line with different modules.

Especially when your talking about 2 different engines with the same BORE. The only difference between the 4.6 and 5.4 is the stroke. This means everything from the BLOCK DECK up can all be the same. Same Heads, Cam, Intake, Headers, Ignition...everything.

Only time will tell...at least I know that the CHIP swapping method is still a viable one when looking for more performance.

Different PCM programs from Ford is a completely different animal altogether from aftermarket chips. The Ford engineers have access to original computer code whereas the aftermarket chip engineers don't. I'm not saying aftermarket chips aren't possible for the '05, it just isn't the same thing as Ford retuning the PCM for different applications.

 

[spectravp]

Different PCM programs from Ford is a completely different animal altogether from aftermarket chips. The Ford engineers have access to original computer code whereas the aftermarket chip engineers don't. I'm not saying aftermarket chips aren't possible for the '05, it just isn't the same thing as Ford retuning the PCM for different applications.

That is exactly the case now for all current Mustangs... the after market industry does not have access to original code. They mod it. Same thing fro the 05. It'll just take time... same as when the new 99's came out. No chips were available until 2000 or so.

 

[TomServo92]

That is exactly the case now for all current Mustangs... the after market industry does not have access to original code. They mod it. Same thing fro the 05. It'll just take time... same as when the new 99's came out. No chips were available until 2000 or so.

The original quote from Brascorpion was that there are already chips out there for the '05, which isn't the case. There are alternate PCM programs from Ford for other vehicles/engines. My point is that it isn't the same thing as an aftermarket chip.

 

[351CJ]

Some of you guys are missing the point. There will NOT be any place that you can plug a "chip" into on the PCM. The ONLY way to modify the code is going to be to download a new PCM program. Yes any computer program can be broken, given enough time and effort, but the level of complexity and effort required to alter the PCM programming on the 05 Mustang is at least an order of magnitude higher than for the 99-04. It will be beyond the capability of most tuners and chip shops. Organizations like Roush & Ford Racing will be capable of doing so, but few other companies will be able.

Over on the corral.net, there was a Q&A with a Team Mustang engineer. This question of the PCM and re-programming it specifically came up. The Team Mustang engineer said that this is a problem for the aftermarket as the PCM code will be next to impossible to break and Ford has no plans to release the code. He said that there is "tuning" room to handle modest modifications such as a new cat back exhaust or a cold air induction BUT power adders (turbo & super chargers) would be out of the question. The engineer mentioned that they were considering working with Ford Racing to develop PCM code for a FRPP supercharger kit, but nothing was definate. He also mentioned that screwing with the PCM code would most likely void the engine warranty.

As a reference point, the 05 Stang's PCM system is similar to what the Lincoln LS uses. This system was introduced in June 1999. It is now 5 years later and NO ONE has been able break the code.

Since the Mustang will sell at 4 to 5 times the quantites as the Lincon LS, there will be more incentive for someone to try to break the PCM system, but don't hold your breath.

 

[SWortham]

Eventually, I'm sure there will be plug n play or piggy-back ECU chips available simply because it's a Mustang... the following for this car is 100X greater than my Hyundai.

Until then, for you guys desiring forced induction, an FMU could be used to handle your fuel delivery. Or there is always an aftermarket standalone ECU to consider. However, they can be a royal pain to setup and they're generally over $1000.

 

[Rootus]

As advanced as the PCM may be for the 2005 Mustang, I guarantee that far more complex things have been reverse engineered and cracked -- I figure I will avoid serious engine mods for a year or so, and when I'm ready to give up the warranty and add boost, the tuning ability will be there. This is the same FUD that surrounded the launch of the '96 Mustang -- wasn't true then either. BTW, I think it's amusing for someone to quote a Ford guy saying that screwing with the PCM would void the warranty -- when has this NOT been the case? I'm not worried about voiding the warranty by reflashing the PCM, I think adding the Kenne Bell will be just as effective...

Dave

 

[spectravp]

This is straight from Kenne Belle's website:
Our investment in concept/test vehicles - they total 15-20 at any given time - dynomometers, engine controllers, computer systems, programming equipment, data acquisition and sensors, and a myriad of specialty tools clearly represents Kenne Bell's commitment to supercharging and related products. We even engineered our own stand alone computer system complete with knock protection - an industry first. This year we built a record number of supercharged project vehicles with Ford.

I'm sure they will have no problem doing what they have to do. They are not about to loose hundreds of thousand, possibly millions of dollars in future sales of aftermarket parts for the Mustang.

 

[george burgess]

i am installing a 2000 4 cam cobra engine/trans package in a kit car. i need recomendations for suppliers of modified chips for this engine. e-mail [email protected] thanks george

 

[Hatchman]

i am installing a 2000 4 cam cobra engine/trans package in a kit car. i need recomendations for suppliers of modified chips for this engine. e-mail [email protected] thanks george

Wow, talk about a blast from the past. Bringing back a year old post with your very first post.

And this is the the 2005 GT Tech Forum, you might get more help in the forum that deals with the 2000's.