Cobra intake vs Edelbrock Performer...which is better for AFR 165's?

Highbredcloud said:

I agree...a 4.10 gear is a must...currently i have 3.73 but will make the swap once the rest is takin care of...I did ask Ed if the Performer RPM would work for my setup...but he actually recommended the regular Performer...for my application...but seeing how the lower intake of the Performer needs porting by the injector area...I am having second thoughts about getting it...sice it all adds up...afterall my Cobra lower is already ported...For a street car I think I will benefit the most from a long runner intake...since the car will only see track 10% of its duty...In a way I want a fast street car than a strip car...and setting up the combos for the two are totally different...86Cobra has big heads...he needs a big intake to support the flow...Not sure if I would benefit from a big intake such as the Holley or the RPM II...I don't like the fact that with those intakes the powerband is from 1500-6500+...I would rather take something from idle to 5500RPM...I know you can't have it both ways...but why not? what would be need to have it both ways...? killer low end and enough to pulll to 5800-6000 tops? nothing more nothing lesss...

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Did you tell him you had a goal of mid 11's? Theres another guy going 11.60's with TW heads on corral and Ed recommended an RPM II for him. He ran 11.60 @ 113. I have no doubt that you can run high 11's with the performer. With the lack of cubic inches its not as easy for a street car with stock internals (no expensive light weight stuff) to have killer low end AND insane up top pull to run past a ZO6 vette from a roll on the highway. I am in no way trying to tell you what to pick, rather i'm just throwing in some examples of what guys are using to achieve the goals you want. I am also posting what Ed told me since we seem to have similar plans. My only downfall is im only about 9.5:1 compression. I'd love to be around 11:1. Don't be afraid of "big" intakes either. The powerband rating doesn't tell the full story, its ALL in the combo. I want to do another Ed cam and a Holley systemax II like I said above but when its 25* out, i'm in no rush to pull my car apart and get frost bite in the process Between the PMS I just paid for and the I/C swap, I should see really nice gains.

Mike

Highbredcloud said:

actually for informational purposes only...don't want to start a war here...the RPM lower has slightly larger ports...1.05" by 1.88" and the regular Performer is 1.02" by 1.85"...not enough to notice but there is a slight differene...upper is what is the major difference...

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/index.html

under intake manifold/ford

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The site contradicts itself. It says the lowers have slight difference in size then it lists the RPM lower and the performer lower as the same part #. I think edelbrock messed up saying the port sizes are different.

Dude, I change my mind a lot due to money I sold the supercharger and i'm very glad I did. The stroker i'm gonna hold off on, again, due to money. Its not cheap to build a 10 second stroker the right way. I did buy the PMS because I have some idle issues I need to tune out and then work on dialing in my WOT tune. My car went 109 mph untuned running lean with like 292hp. I would say it would have gone 112+ dialed in. Our local track got shut down for good so that doesn't really matter anymore. Now i'd just be adding more power for kicks and more fun. My heads are milled .020" to 57.6cc. With what Ed was talking about I would be in the 115+ range with a new cam and intake. He mentioned 335+rwhp so actually, that should be faster than 115mph but not too worried about numbers. Its all about having fun.

With my combo now, Ed recommended an RPM intake with a 75mm TB. For the one i'm planning with a new cam from him he recommended an RPM II or a Holley systemax II. I run a tremec TKO. I did a fresh drivetrain in the summer. Tremec tko, alum D shaft with 31 spline yoke, mcleod disk, king cobra pp, mcleod scattershield. yes, I have a TFS street manifold now and it works fine. And yes, I would sell the old parts and upgrade to new parts so its only a few hundred out of my pocket. The main thing now isn't money, its the work involved to pull the car part again in the cold with the limited time I have :-/

Highbredcloud said:

whats up David...you were amongst the few I was going to pm...but since you responded to the thread I will just ask you here...was your Performer ported in anyway? I'm really in a predicament here...I want to make the most out of this setup and I would not want the intake to be a determining or a regret at the same time...Not sure if this makes sense but I have high hopes for my new setup...The reason this issues becomes difficult is unported the Performer doesn't really seems as big as my Cobra lower ported...I'm sure the upper is a better design over the Cobra...both intakes in my opinion deserve attention to the injector area...however, ported it looks as though the Performer has more meat on it so eventually ported would most likely outflow the Cobra...Now its a question if the power to money ratio is significant enough to make one intake better over the other...In other words...don't want to spend $500.00 on an intake just to gain 10 peak HP...

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Whats up man? My Performer is "box stock"...nothing done to it...taken right out of the box...Ed himself told me to go with the Performer...I drive my car everyday (I have more torque than before with GREAT throttle response at low rpms...almost to much )...which I attribute to the cam/intake...I personally would keep the Ported Cobra over the Performer because of the money/power ratio...but I think the Performer would allow more room for growth...

I think listening to Ed's advice on my PURE STREET car...is pretty substancial in itself...I have no other car to drive and this "combo" I have has done me very well and I have lots of fun spinning in 4th gear with the 3rd-4th shift (bad tires - 245/50/16's)...before the h/c/i swap it wouldn't spin in 1st from a roll...getting sideways at 60mph in 3rd is pretty cool ...next on the list is DR's...Nittos...

373's are plenty of gear...if you want a nice street car...no need for 410's or higher though it would make you faster...you don't need them...saying 373's are a "small" gear is just funny...some people don't know how to give info for the specific situation (cough cough 92grnlx hint hint nudge nudge)...

I have 373's as well...

Just remember I drive my car EVERYDAY-multiple times a day...it isn't a track queen or street/track...I do take it to the track though...a couple times a month for some fun...

My car is a "fun" street car...it is nice to be on a two-lane with someone beside you and well you know the rest ...and I still can ride at 2300rpm on the highway ...

Bigger is not always better...if you express your similar goals to Ed as I did...he will give you similar results on what parts to use...if you want your car to be more of a track car he is going to give you a list of "bigger parts"...

Good Luck man

Edit: I'm glad you aren't getting "sucked in" by the peak numbers...it is all about the useable powerband as Ed told me...and just remember when your on the street I would hope most of the time your below 3k rpm...so what do you want it to feel like "downlow"...

Grn92LX said:

...to run past a ZO6 vette from a roll on the highway.

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To beat a properly driven zo6 from a roll...it will take trap speeds upwards of 118+mph to beat one...

david, now your telling me with HIS GOAL of 11.50's a ported cobra and a 373 gear is enough? LOL I sure do know how to give advice for the SPECIFIC goal, hence why I recommended a "bigger" intake than a cobra with a ported lower. You car only runs like 84 mph in the 1/8 mile if I remember, thats no where close to HIS 11.50 goal so i'm not too sure as to why your saying my advice is wrong? For HIS goal he NEEDS a 410+ gear. Ask Ed and see what he says *chuckles* Hmm, what gear did Ed recommend for me, take a guess and no it doesn't start with a 3 So, please don't say I don't know how to recommend parts for a specific application when its dead obvious its the other way around. To add yet another example of a cobra on an afr/fti combo, lets look at yet another of my friends cars My friend chris's car on here went 110 mph. Is that enough for 11.50???? Nope.

Eds probably going to recommend a Performer because as he told me they just outperform all other intakes on market now plus can be easily cleaned up inside. The intake really depends on the cam and since you haven't listed the specs I'm not to sure anyone can really offer sound advice. If your cam will be on small side (219/224 ish) I do agree that it's not worth the effort to switch to a Performer unless you're trying to squeeze every last bit out of this motor but if cam will larger than this (224/228 ish or more) I ditch the Cobra.

"I still have the original 93 Cobra intake and not this new crap made in China"

To date I've owned several stock intakes, GT40 intake, TFS Street and helped a good friend install a Performer intake. Side by side I could not notice one bit difference in quality on any of them and to be honest casting flash on TFS and Edel was better than the GT40. But this is just my opinion.

Grn92LX said:

david, now your telling me with HIS GOAL of 11.50's a ported cobra and a 373 gear is enough? LOL I sure do know how to give advice for the SPECIFIC goal, hence why I recommended a "bigger" intake than a cobra with a ported lower. You car only runs like 84 mph in the 1/8 mile if I remember, thats no where close to HIS 11.50 goal so i'm not too sure as to why your saying my advice is wrong? For HIS goal he NEEDS a 410+ gear. Ask Ed and see what he says *chuckles* Hmm, what gear did Ed recommend for me, take a guess and no it doesn't start with a 3 So, please don't say I don't know how to recommend parts for a specific application when its dead obvious its the other way around. To add yet another example of a cobra on an afr/fti combo, lets look at yet another of my friends cars My friend chris's car on here went 110 mph. Is that enough for 11.50???? Nope.

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I was referring to the "small gear" you said that 373's were...

Okay...again your not giving specifics...my car runs 84mph in the 1/8 BECAUSE...horrible tires (couldn't tell when to shift because I was spinning all the way to 4th gear)...FIRST TIME AT THE TRACK WITH NEW COMBO...NEVER WENT THRU ALL 4 GEARS IN A ROW SINCE I DID THE H/C/I...was being easy on the transmission...I have a service engine light on (could be anything)...no power shifting of course...and haven't messed with the timing at all...just set it and forget it...plus I was shifting early (57-5800rpm instead of 6k)...so their you happy with the 84mph now? Huh?

I put in my post that the 410's will be faster...it is going to be hard to get an 11.50 with a nice street car as highbredcloud stated...it will be hard to kill both those birds with one stone...

No really bigger isn't always better...

Again...I have talked to Ed...I keep having to remind you about that...you always try to turn my post into "anti-Ed" post... ...atleast I don't change my mind all the time and am set with what I want...

My cam specs are similar to what highbredcloud is looking at....

I NEVER turned anything into anti ed. WTF did that come from? Newsflash I RUN an FTI cam/springs and am planning another cam. When I said the 373 was "tiny" I meant for highbred's goals. Not sure what the little "at least I dont change my mind" comment was for?? Thats like me saying "at least I have the money to buy what I want" I wasn't knocking your 84mph track time, what I was doing was showing highbred that your combo is NOT a mid 11 combo and I was trying to show (with the many REAL world examples I posted) that bigger parts are needed for his 302 to run 11.50's. He needs to talk to Ed and tell him exactly what he wats. To go 11.50's in a 302 you ARE gonna give up a little low end but as Ed said, "its nothing you cant live w/o". For my car with the changes i'm planning Ed says RPM II or Holley. I guess i like going a little faster than the norm and I dont worry if the dyno shows a 10ft/lbs loss at 2300rpm. I would say once I dial it in with the PMS I will be very happy. Happy Holidays

Grn92LX said:

I am in no way trying to tell you what to pick

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looks like a pretty determined sales pitch to me.

highbred, my ported lower Cobra intake has made 306RWHP/329RWTQ on AFR 165 heads with a mild 15511 cam and my ported Performer has made 332RWHP/348RWTQ on AFR heads and an EDC cam. Neither is likely to put you into the 11s. You have to decide if you want a fast street car as you stated or a N/A race car that can be driven on the street.

I've got a suggestion - same one I made before. Why not put the intake you have on as it will cost you a gasket set. If your not happy and think another intake will make more power, an intake swap is easy to do - justr don't sell the Cobra too quickly, just in case. Check out Robert Pearson's walk down that street - his dynos of one of my ported Explorer intakes and then a RPMII is in the link under my avatar.

tmoss said:

looks like a pretty determined sales pitch to me.

highbred, my ported lower Cobra intake has made 306RWHP/329RWTQ on AFR 165 heads with a mild 15511 cam and my ported Performer has made 332RWHP/348RWTQ on AFR heads and an EDC cam. Neither is likely to put you into the 11s. You have to decide if you want a fast street car as you stated or a N/A race car that can be driven on the street.

I've got a suggestion - same one I made before. Why not put the intake you have on as it will cost you a gasket set. If your not happy and think another intake will make more power, an intake swap is easy to do - justr don't sell the Cobra too quickly, just in case. Check out Robert Pearson's walk down that street - his dynos of one of my ported Explorer intakes and then a RPMII is in the link under my avatar.

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Tom, explain my "sales pitch" please? I have nothing to sell. I am, however,. answering his post with similar recommendations that ED recommended to me with simlar goals. As it sits now, GTjake has an 11.90 potential car and thats pretty damn impressive for a performer intake even though its ported.

Grn92LX said:

Tom, explain my "sales pitch" please? I have nothing to sell. I am, however,. answering his post with similar recommendations that ED recommended to me with simlar goals. As it sits now, GTjake has an 11.90 potential car and thats pretty damn impressive for a performer intake even though its ported.

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Well, don't take that wrong, but you were lobbying pretty heavily there - which I have no problem with as Ed supplies great products - but I actually chuckled when I saw the "I'm not trying to tell you what to get" comment after the heavy lobbying.

Having the power to get there and actually getting there is the trick. It's often not as easy as looking at the numbers. GTJakes car did make very impressive numbers - on a ported Performer. The REAL story is not in his peaks, but in the fact he averaged ~315ft-lbs from 2,000-6,000 rpm. Generally, people think and recommend that you have to increase runner cross section and shorten the runners to make more power when in fact making the runners more efficient and keeping the longer runners can make better power. Probably why Ed recommends the Performer as much as he does for the AFR 165 head. I just finished porting a Performer for a local who is putting it on AFR 185 heads and a 331 stroker. I'm lookin forward to that dyno big time.

Grn92LX said:

I NEVER turned anything into anti ed. WTF did that come from? Newsflash I RUN an FTI cam/springs and am planning another cam. When I said the 373 was "tiny" I meant for highbred's goals. Not sure what the little "at least I dont change my mind" comment was for?? Thats like me saying "at least I have the money to buy what I want" I wasn't knocking your 84mph track time, what I was doing was showing highbred that your combo is NOT a mid 11 combo and I was trying to show (with the many REAL world examples I posted) that bigger parts are needed for his 302 to run 11.50's. He needs to talk to Ed and tell him exactly what he wats. To go 11.50's in a 302 you ARE gonna give up a little low end but as Ed said, "its nothing you cant live w/o". For my car with the changes i'm planning Ed says RPM II or Holley. I guess i like going a little faster than the norm and I dont worry if the dyno shows a 10ft/lbs loss at 2300rpm. I would say once I dial it in with the PMS I will be very happy. Happy Holidays

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There for a while you were giving "anti-Ed" post...when you were talking about Jay Allen and all...anybody can do a search to find that out...I don't feel like doing it...you seem to go "against the grain" on a lot of things that aren't standard...maybe you just don't like going with the crowd? You post about other cam grinders/custom/other shortblock companies compared to the tried and trusted/go with these big TB's/...just to be different? I don't know...but you do as Tom pointed out try to sell a lot of ideas/things in many of your posts...always saying you "did your research"...possibly posting that to sway a "sale"

Their is something in your personality that makes you sell other ideas...just remember if it isn't broke don't fix it...their is absolutely nothing wrong with selling other ideas...but when you "down" the other contemporary ideas...that just isn't right IMO...but hey that is just my opinion...

Now your going back to Ed...doesn't surprise me...you've went from Jay Allen/347/342/Supercharger/back to Ed...and then with just a cam/intake change...nothing wrong with that...all in 3 months...sometimes I have trouble deciding what I'm going to do to...

I'm not for sure where you got the "I guess i like going a little faster than the norm and I dont worry if the dyno shows a 10ft/lbs loss at 2300rpm."...nobody is saying you have to be the same...but that is YOU...let people make up their own mind with unbias reviews...though I haven't owned TW heads or the equivalent...I do not "down" them...I comment (from hear-say) that they are just as nice as the AFR's...but you make comments to the affect of "you don't need the eddy/AFR/fti combo to run 110mph..."

Oh and for your info...Ed set me up with 110mph combination (I told him that is what I wanted my car to do) and he still suggested the Performer...again it seems to flow nicely for stock and h/c/i cars...but you "suggest" the Systemax - maybe because it isn't the norm? I'm familiar with the Systemax (friend had it on his basically stock 95 5.0L) he went by "getinagtsoon" on here...

Just please quit posting or inferring how restrictive the 65mm is or how you don't need to go with this particular grinder...Mike...your just a guy that likes to do the same thing/mph differently...again...nothing wrong with that...but quit posting bias post and then trying to turn it around on other posters...you have swayed so many "newbies" it isn't funny...or maybe it is

You talked about the 75mm TB even before you got one or used one yourself...and still maintain that same clause...but you "don't like it" when someone goes by "internet hearsay"...you use the "internet myth" so many times...you overuse it and abuse it...another tool to sway?...Again your posting combinations and saying what will do this and that when you yourself try to appear that you have personal experience in...when you don't have any except an FTI cammed h/i car...as does myself...quit using that internet myth junk...that gets tiresome...almost as tiresome as my 146k bottom end ...blah blah blah internet myth blah blah blah

I guess I just make up the things I type

tmoss said:

but I actually chuckled when I saw the "I'm not trying to tell you what to get" comment after the heavy lobbying.

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I kind of chuckled...

Thats the thing, man. I am NOT biased at all. I don't recommend things just because i have them. I love being different (if you ever met me, you'd see) The thing is, this guy asked for a combo capable of running 11.50s with a 302. So, I suggested a parts list to help him achieve the goal. Part of the reason I wanted to do another Ed cam is when talking with Jay he basically told me to save my money for the stroker and call him when i'm ready. The thing is, im 24 years old and I dont wanna spend all my money on my car, I kinda wanna save some for the future and buy a house, put a ring on my girls finger, you know, those wonderful things. Thats why I change my mind back and forth. I have done a TON of research so I recommend things to guys. As for the TB debate, I havent said a word about a 65mm being junk in the thread. Hey, if guys like Ed C, jay allen, Rick91GT agree that the bigger tb's are the way to go, I am probably wasting my time since the proof is in the pudding Same goes for that guy with the heavy 3600lb vert who gained 1.72mph For my car right now, my main concern is getting my PMS and tuning for drivability, idle and then work on WOT. Its too god damn cold out to rip my car apart to do a cam/intake swap, but that is what I wanna do. I also gotta pull my tremec and put in an extended fork, fun

Again, I suggested the systemax and RPM II based off of what Ed recommended to me and guys i've seen on the net running in the mid 11's. 86cobra ran 11.70 I believe with a holley in a vert with an fti cam, gray86hatch runs 11.60's with an RPM II and an fti cam, allmotor95 (i think its his name) runs 11.80 in a heavy vert with an RPM II, Rick91GT ran 11.70's I beleive with a holley. See where i'm getting? I'm not trying to be biased, just trying to sway him into parts to help him acheive his goal. My friends car went 12.40's @ 110 with an RPM/afr/fti car.


Mike