Cobra intake vs Edelbrock Performer...which is better for AFR 165's?

[5spd GT]

Thats the thing, man. I am NOT biased at all. I don't recommend things just because i have them. I love being different (if you ever met me, you'd see) The thing is, this guy asked for a combo capable of running 11.50s with a 302. So, I suggested a parts list to help him achieve the goal. Part of the reason I wanted to do another Ed cam is when talking with Jay he basically told me to save my money for the stroker and call him when i'm ready. The thing is, im 24 years old and I dont wanna spend all my money on my car, I kinda wanna save some for the future and buy a house, put a ring on my girls finger, you know, those wonderful things. Thats why I change my mind back and forth. I have done a TON of research so I recommend things to guys. As for the TB debate, I havent said a word about a 65mm being junk in the thread. Hey, if guys like Ed C, jay allen, Rick91GT agree that the bigger tb's are the way to go, I am probably wasting my time since the proof is in the pudding Same goes for that guy with the heavy 3600lb vert who gained 1.72mph For my car right now, my main concern is getting my PMS and tuning for drivability, idle and then work on WOT. Its too god damn cold out to rip my car apart to do a cam/intake swap, but that is what I wanna do. I also gotta pull my tremec and put in an extended fork, fun

Again, I suggested the systemax and RPM II based off of what Ed recommended to me and guys i've seen on the net running in the mid 11's. 86cobra ran 11.70 I believe with a holley in a vert with an fti cam, gray86hatch runs 11.60's with an RPM II and an fti cam, allmotor95 (i think its his name) runs 11.80 in a heavy vert with an RPM II, Rick91GT ran 11.70's I beleive with a holley. See where i'm getting? I'm not trying to be biased, just trying to sway him into parts to help him acheive his goal. My friends car went 12.40's @ 110 with an RPM/afr/fti car.


Mike

Mike...that is even a stretch to me not being bias...we are all bias on here in our own ways...again that is a stretchy statement...

All's I'm saying is when you "suggest" a part...please don't "down" another option unless it is "mandatory"...

When we do the infamous TB debates...I just state that the 75mm is not needed...but you put things down like "the fast guys are using the 75mm's" and all that mess...so when a "newbie" sees that...guess what they go for...whatever makes them "fast"...

Or when cam grinders are being discussed...I comment about my experience with Ed but usually mention in the context on how Buddy or Jay or the equivalent are just as reliable in every way...

Same thing with the heads debate...I do not down TW's or Edelbrocks head line...or use "selective" words to prick away at the "winner" in the posters opinion...

Just like at the beginning of this thread...I put "keep the ported Cobra (though I have no expereince with a ported Cobra" and then I put but I was happy with my Performer...seeing a pattern here?

I do not mean this rude...but you really do come across bias in many of your posts...just as I come across hardheaded...but I realize mine because I am hardheaded...

 

[Highbredcloud]

Guys...(5spd GT & Grn92LX) I appreciate your input...it's obvious to me that both of you take different approaches to go fast...and that's cool that's what makes the Mustang game unique and fun at the same time...However, I tend to stick with smaller parts myself and I myself am partial to Ford Racing parts...but that's not why I asked the question in my thread...if my Cobra intake was not ported than obviously I would go with the Performer...but since it is I have no idea how much it flows but from research on what others use...it seems as though the Cobra will give a better TQ curve and my flow just as good or better than a stock out of the box Performer...My goal of mid 11's may be too much to ask but I would definately like to see high 11's...

Killercanery is running really really low 12's in a 94 Vert at 3700lbs...I have a 92 Notch...I don't know if his Performer is ported or not...but if it is not than I think my Cobra intake will have a shot at 11's assuimng my driving can get me there...I do agree that I would definately need more gear such as 4.10's over my 3.73 to get there and I am willing to change over once I do the other necessary adjustments first...such as a better tranny...etc...

My whole deal with long runner intakes is that my car with be used 90% as a street car...only 10% strip car...so I need to make good power down low...not at 6200RPM...I don't like the fact that a short runner intakes such as the RPM, RPM II or Systemax II go from 1500-6500+...I would like an intake that goes from idle to 5500-6000 MAX...therefore I would need a cam that has a powerband somewhere from 2600-56000 or 2800-5800 MAX...since te car will not be shifted past that...now if I get the short runner intakes...I would not be using those intakes to their full potential while at the same time I would be loosing power in the lower RPM's...where as the long runner intakes would probablly be better throughout the powerband...I'm not looking for peak HP...I would like to see power throughout the band instead...but making good HP would definately be impressive...don't get me wrong...

My bigger concern right now is IF the upper Cobra intake needs any attention such as porting the TB plenum to a bigger mm such as possibly a 75mm over the 70mm...or is the upper going to be fine? The lower will work well IMO...together will the upper and lower Cobra get me into 11's over a Performer? That is my question...I am not considering any other intakes beside those two...If you two could use your knowledge or anyone else for that matter that would really put things into a better perspective and hopefully would make my decision a lot simpler...so which is it guys...Cobra with a ported lower or a box stock Performer...which one will get me into 11's...? is it worth the extra $$$ to swap intakes? those are the questions that I need an answer too...thanks for the input to those who chose to take part in...

-Greg

 

[custom89stang]

for real

okay here it is, depends on what u want from the car. the cobra u have will serve u fine, but like u said idle to prolly 5500.....the performer/ (i have the typhoon) will serve u from 1500-6500, it all depends on what u want. i have the typhoon because u dont launch from idle with a stick, u launch from more than that...so it serves me better, if its a street vehicle (like my friends 94gt) then i would get a differnt intake, he is getting the trick flow street for idle to 5500.......with afr 165's...

 

[Grn92LX]

Highbred, your goal of mid 11's isn't too much to ask, but you are gonna need a larger manifold and you will give up a little bottom end. I can't see your car with one of the bigger 302 manifolds and a 410 gear being soft down low by any means. I do, however, think that if you want the best of both worlds an RPM is the best choice. I do also recommend opening up the inlet for a 75mm TB. My friends car made very good torque with an RPM intake, afr 165's and an FTI cam. If interested I will show you his graph. Just send me your email addy.

david, I think you do come across as hard headed online a bit. When we have the TB debates I post many examples and you seem to do your best to disown them. I dunno why you do that, but you do. That i'm not gonna stop, when I see TB debates you bet i'll be in there As for head debates, I dont get too involved in them unless I see an internet racer posting non-fictional material. I think we're just 2 different people from 2 very different necks of the woods. We dont really personally attack each other, we just disagree and choose different ways to beat our goals. One thing I also noticed is it doesnt seem like you have much of a sense of humor. I could be wrong. I've "taken some shots at ya" online and you took them the wrong way as if I was serious. I'm never really too serious, im 24 but barely act my shoe size (at least thats what the girl says )

 

[horseplay91]

my vote is keep the ported cobra. like mentioned earlier, if your not happy with the results then you can change. but if the cobra does NOT give the results your looking for then just dont think that by replacing it with a Performer WILL.

 

[5spd GT]

Highbred - Without me personally knowing the flow #'s between the ported Cobra or the Performer I would hate to give you a "correct" answer...but I would keep your money and stay with the Cobra...I think that couple hundred bucks more could be used elsewhere...if I remember correctly...on my cam card my powerband is listed as 2600-5600rpm...just like you said ...I personally do not think my car could hit 11's at its weight and tune...but I won't know till I get some tires on it and go at it aggresively to how close I can get to the 11's...but as I said earlier I told Ed I drive it everyday with the occasional trip to the track and wanted to hit 110mph...he told me it can be done (with my other mods with it) with some good driving and tuning...but I do agree that the RPM might be a pretty good pick for both worlds...I can't remember the guys name on here but he "said" that he swapped to a RPM upper over the Performer upper and gained mph but lost E.T. or something like that...it was very marginal...I didn't put to much thought to it...but I just happened to remember that...sorry for "jacking" your thread...if you could find out the flow numbers and compare them that would give you the answer...but I think the ported Cobra would be fine

Grn92Lx - I know I come off hardheaded (because I am) and I pointed that out in the other post...and on the "humour thing"...I have plenty of that illusive humour...I just see your little " " and " " as a way to cover up the seriousness of what your trying to portray...so I don't fall for that " " As you've noticed (my hardheadedness)...I haven't ever "left" a TB thread or gear thread or a big intake thread...only until the readers get tired of it/locked/or kills itself...I just see there is way to much general "ideas" spread by the likes of you and a couple others (just my thoughts)...so I try to specify what more gear or less gear can do for you...I will never give up on those type topics for as long as I own my 5.0L...and lets just say I don't plan on selling it anytime soon The constant variable in your "performance" post are BIGGER IS BETTER...and I don't think that needs to be portrayed the way it is...when most guys say go with the Performer/RPM - you say Systemax/II...or when most say go with the 65mm-70mm - you say go with the 75mm TB...or when people want to know a gearing for their car...(haven't noticed as much from you lately) but it used to be 410's +..."don't fear the gear"...and all that...again...if it ain't broke...don't fix it ...

I just think the "small performance mods" (my bias)...needs to be shown as well...instead of saying go with 410's and nothing less/75mm and nothing less/Systemax and nothing less...

I don't disown your TB examples...I state that were all the variables the same with that 4hp gain...as I've stated...I bet a cold air intake picks up 4hp over the stock rubber somewhere in the powerband...that 4hp gain means nothing to me...and then the track time gains can be negligable to because are all the variables the same when the mph gain is experienced (humidity/temp/shifted at the EXACT RPM/EXACT SPEED/60ft the same...etc...I've gained and lost mph with NO changes...because those variables changed...again that might be something you might want to post instead of saying they gained 1.72 mph from just a 75mm TB...because that simply is not the case...the world isn't perfect and neither is the 75mm TB

David

 

[Grn92LX]

I don't plan on selling mine anytime soon either. Thought about it a few times but its not worth it. I was dead set on getting an 03 cobra then I called for a car insurance quote and well, im not gonna pay $6600 a year for insurance

The only reason I suggested the bigger intakes was because I actually looked at his goals on the vehicle and suggested something I felt WILL get him what he wants (11.50's with a 302) Now he is willing to "slow" his goals down so I feel the RPM intake (opened oup for a 75mm tb of course) along with ed's cam will get him the best of both worlds. You must have told ed low end torque was very important when he did your cam so I guess thats why he recommended the performer. My camsheet says 2800-5800. When I asked if I should change my intake manifold on my current combo ed said "rpm intake/75mm tb best combo available" As for gear threads, for a car that wants to see more at the track we all know more gear is better. Theres been stockers showing decent gains with more gear. BUT for the average enthusiest you are correct 373 is the happy medium. Had I still had a local track open I would have swapped to a 410. My friend swapped to a 410 over the summer and loves it. My rear end hums so it needs to be taken apart anyway so thats another reason I considered a 410 swap. I still say highbred needs to be totally honest with Ed about what he wants and how fast he wants to go and let Ed make the decision. Now that I see he is willing to "slow" down his goals I recommend the RPM. But if he wannted 11.50's its gonna take more than a cobra intake and 373's. Merry xmas and a happy f'n new year

 

[90Notch]

A 224ish cam isn't all that small and power down low where the Cobra will most likely outshine a Performer isn't going to be that high. Not knowing exactly what the cam is but guessing 112LSA on 108ICL I'd say the Edel will make more power (average too). Will it make signifcantly more, probably not is it worth the cost of switching that's your call. Would I choose Performer over a ported Cobra yes.

 

[tmoss]

...I just see there is way to much general "ideas" spread by the likes of ...

Too many people on about every forum and site I visit - it's the nature of the beast. Problem for guys who are looking for answers is they have no way of knowing who is right and who has more first hand experience.

A professionally ported Cobra will outperform a stock Performer on a 170cc or less head just about every time - I have proven that more than once.

 

[Highbredcloud]

A 224ish cam isn't all that small and power down low where the Cobra will most likely outshine a Performer isn't going to be that high. Not knowing exactly what the cam is but guessing 112LSA on 108ICL I'd say the Edel will make more power (average too). Will it make signifcantly more, probably not is it worth the cost of switching that's your call. Would I choose Performer over a ported Cobra yes.

The cam will most likely be at 109LSA...I do want the most aggressive streetable cam...if that makes sense...I have confidence in Tom's ported lower Cobra intake...it does look sweet...plus its not costing me any money...I just hope that my decision going with the Cobra won't influence the way Ed grinds the cam...incase in the future I want to change intakes for whatever the reason...

 

[5spd GT]

92GrnLx - I wan't referring to your intake picks in this thread...I was referring to your other posts in other threads...the same as in the TB's and gears...your post almost always infer "bigger is better" and usually go against the grain...

Actually do you want to see exactly what I told Ed...I have it saved onto my computer because I was trying to remember what I needed to tell him and what I wanted...so here you go: "100% daily driven…taken to track every other weekend for some fun…
3370 race weight
I don’t have emission checks so the cam doesn’t have to be emissions legal (Arkansas) but I want emissions AFR heads so I can hook up the smog equipment…
Trap around 108-110 (or whatever you think is possible with all my other “requirements”)…is more mph possible…???
373 gear ratio, manual transmission
I would like a nice flat torque curve with 300rwhp (or more)…whatever it takes to get 108-110 or more…
I would like very good street manners because this will be sitting in some stop and go traffic…going back and forth to college and all…(don’t want to lose daily driver torque)…I don’t want to deal with any low rpm bucking since I’ll probably be at low rpms in stop and go traffic…"

And with my "notes" I actually ask if I should go with the Performer RPM and he told me the Performer would be the better bet

Highbred: My cam's LSA is 111...

 

[Grn92LX]

Are you ever gonna dyno your car? I'd like to see the curves. Do you have any more modifications planned? Man I wish I could take my car to the track like you can Thats another reason I keep changing my mind since ours is shut down for good. What would you do to my car if you were me? I thought about throwing on an RPM intake and maybe degreeing the cam in and putting it on the retarded centerline. Then dial it all in with the PMS. I have the intch to do something, but what?? I dont wanna spend too much money and at least with an intake manifold I can sell the old one. I thought about an I/C swap and pulling the heads for some minor work. Who knows.

I don't remember exactly what I told Ed. I did say I wanted to trap around 113 and shift by 6200 and have nice low end torque. Between his cam and LT's I gained a ton of torque in the 2500-3200 range. My track times were not impressive at all since my a/f ratio was all messed up (I think I showed you the graph?) I'm talking 18:1 in some spots, 16:1 in some spots I'm leaning towards an intake manifold swap and tune it with the PMS. I gotta get rid of the cold start surge/stalling

 

[5spd GT]

Are you ever gonna dyno your car? I'd like to see the curves. Do you have any more modifications planned? Man I wish I could take my car to the track like you can Thats another reason I keep changing my mind since ours is shut down for good. What would you do to my car if you were me? I thought about throwing on an RPM intake and maybe degreeing the cam in and putting it on the retarded centerline. Then dial it all in with the PMS. I have the intch to do something, but what?? I dont wanna spend too much money and at least with an intake manifold I can sell the old one. I thought about an I/C swap and pulling the heads for some minor work. Who knows.

I don't remember exactly what I told Ed. I did say I wanted to trap around 113 and shift by 6200 and have nice low end torque. Between his cam and LT's I gained a ton of torque in the 2500-3200 range. My track times were not impressive at all since my a/f ratio was all messed up (I think I showed you the graph?) I'm talking 18:1 in some spots, 16:1 in some spots I'm leaning towards an intake manifold swap and tune it with the PMS. I gotta get rid of the cold start surge/stalling

I plan on one day getting the car dynoed...I'm am so low on money right now it truely isn't funny I have got to get some tires...it is horrible right now...they are literally slick on the back and I'm starting from scratch with money after Christmas and a couple other things I had to pay for...and after the tires I'm going to get some bodywork done/cowl hood put on (sitting on my porch for a 1 1/2 years - 3in)...and then get some Bilsteins or do something about my suspension (rough ride - wornout)...so that will take my money for several months...but if I decide to go ahead and get that job this summer I can afford "much" more mods (supercharger until the engine goes?) and get me another vehicle...I'm just undecided right now

I do now with my car that there seems to be a "dead" spot between 2200-3000rpm if I were to go WOT from 1000rpm...but the low-rpm torque is there and then it goes past the dead spot and hits 3400-3500rpm or so and just pulls hard all the way to redline then I shift...I think it is just the nature of the cam...Ed gave me lowend torque with the power to trap 110mph (assuming tune and good driver) in exchange for a little loss in the midrange (maybe longtubes would help me out there )...

Yeah I believe you have shown me the graphs...those are kind of scary numbers but 108mph is pretty dang good considering...

You still have that cold/stalling problem...that ain't cool...Mine is fixed and it still starts up fine and it is 11* right now I've had my car pulled out of the ditch twice in the last two days ...Ice on the roads and Arkansas isn't used to that except once or twice a year but it is fun slipping around it in it ...it is horrible having to drive it everywhere since this is my only car...I think I'm the only "car" driving around during this time...people look at me like I'm crazy...

 

[Grn92LX]

yeah dude, thats why last year I bought a 93 saturn. My car got stuck on a jobsite because we had a blizzard and by the time I left there was already a few inches on the ground (I shoulda left early that day) I was doing donuts the other night in the mall parking lot with the saturn, it was fun but the wife didnt like it A beater is a good idea. Less wear and tear on the beast and it doesnt get dirty from the rain or snow. Your car would rip ass with a supercharger. But between a belt not fitting and the overall tight fit of the blower I got pissed off beyond belief (anger problem) and removed it. Its nice seeing my engine bay nice and open again (no ac, no smog and no swaybar) Longtubes would be a very good mod for you. I paid $300 shipped for my BBK ceramic LT's and H pipe and I lucked out because I got them when the car was apart from replacing a blown head gasket from the n2o so it was the easiest LT install you'll ever see And yeah, christmas killed my wallet too and my girlfriends Bday is the 28th

As for your dead spot, put a volt meter on the tps and slowly open the throttle and watch the meter and it should rise steadily. If not, could be bad?

My cold start problem should be easily fixed with the PMS. MY thinking is I need to reduce the start up fuel and also reduce the idle fuel. When it arrives i'll have some help from troy from www.stangtuning.com

 

[5spd GT]

yeah dude, thats why last year I bought a 93 saturn. My car got stuck on a jobsite because we had a blizzard and by the time I left there was already a few inches on the ground (I shoulda left early that day) I was doing donuts the other night in the mall parking lot with the saturn, it was fun but the wife didnt like it A beater is a good idea. Less wear and tear on the beast and it doesnt get dirty from the rain or snow. Your car would rip ass with a supercharger. But between a belt not fitting and the overall tight fit of the blower I got pissed off beyond belief (anger problem) and removed it. Its nice seeing my engine bay nice and open again (no ac, no smog and no swaybar) Longtubes would be a very good mod for you. I paid $300 shipped for my BBK ceramic LT's and H pipe and I lucked out because I got them when the car was apart from replacing a blown head gasket from the n2o so it was the easiest LT install you'll ever see And yeah, christmas killed my wallet too and my girlfriends Bday is the 28th

As for your dead spot, put a volt meter on the tps and slowly open the throttle and watch the meter and it should rise steadily. If not, could be bad?

My cold start problem should be easily fixed with the PMS. MY thinking is I need to reduce the start up fuel and also reduce the idle fuel. When it arrives i'll have some help from troy from www.stangtuning.com

It is funny you don't have a swaybar...because without my swaybar I wouldn't have got pulled out

If I get that job (still undecided) I would most definatly get another vehicle...maybe a newer Ranger or something...I had one before and it was a good reliable fun little truck...

I do need to check my TPS...I have never did that before...and I need to find out why my SE light is on also...it comes on a few seconds after I start the car...