Cold air intake w/o tune

Shark Racer · Apr 24, 2009

I put a K&N cai on my '06GT 5-spd and it definitely woke it up quite a bit. Glad to hear there's bigger gains with a tuner.

VF143Falcon · Apr 25, 2009

you can, but why?? not quite pointless but close.

the tuner is going to open up much more then just the power difference from the CAI w/ or w/o a tune

Farzo · Apr 25, 2009

so which CAI is better the S&B or K&N?

grngt50 · Apr 28, 2009

Farzo said:
so which CAI is better the S&B or K&N?

I used to have the S&B, and I can tell you it was barely any bigger/better than stock; It did however change my exhaust note a bit. I can also tell you that 25 extra horsepower from that intake without a tune never happened

Save your $$ and buy a tuner/cai from Bama.......it will be worth it. I went with the JLT and picked up a used Diablo locally.........then I had Doug email his race tune. Now THAT was a mod that netted somewhere around 25 horsepower for sure.

-James

06bluegt · Apr 30, 2009

i felt a huge difference with the s&b and the other day i took the stang on a long trip i set the cruise on 60mph and checked my gas mileage when i filled up and i got 28.8mpg and all i have is axle back and s&b cai

Shark Racer · Apr 30, 2009

06bluegt said:
i felt a huge difference with the s&b and the other day i took the stang on a long trip i set the cruise on 60mph and checked my gas mileage when i filled up and i got 28.8mpg and all i have is axle back and s&b cai

Could you open up your stock air box and see if maybe they had replaced your air filter with a piece of plywood?

Perhaps your stock air filter was REALLY shot.

06bluegt · Apr 30, 2009

well i bought the car used with only 3000 miles on it...with in the first 100miles i already had the axle back exhaust and cai...the oem filter was brand new....

Shark Racer · Apr 30, 2009

06bluegt said:
well i bought the car used with only 3000 miles on it...with in the first 100miles i already had the axle back exhaust and cai...the oem filter was brand new....

Fair 'nuff. Is this your first 300 hp car?

TheVat · May 1, 2009

06bluegt, glad to hear you like your new intake. 25hp is a lot with just an intake/no tune though. Stock intakes are engineered to reduce intake noise, maybe that is what you think the extra pull is. Get is dynoed and you'll see S&B is fibbing a bit. My mpg at 60 stock 31mpg. With boomtube axelback 31mpg.

06bluegt · May 1, 2009

i think i could of got close to ur gas mileage but the station was across town so that was with some on off driving...no this is not my first 300hp car...my last was a 91 Lx hatchback with 351winsor block cleveland heads 2in headers t56 trans 9in rear end with 4.10 two t3 turbos and tubbed 4inches...well the design of the cai also makes a hhudge difference in the hp gain on after market kits the material and so on..even the surface of the inner tube...it might not be quite 25hp but i almost gaurentee it is close...i might be changing it when i get the c&l intake manifold so ill prolly put thier kit on...

grngt50 · May 2, 2009

I was told by a very reputable tuner that there is close to a 15 horsepower gain to be had by switching from a S&B kit to either a JLT or C&L

-James

06bluegt · May 2, 2009

he could very well be right...we could all have the same intake and all get different hp numbers jst bc of the location(weather, moisture in air, temp., and so on) we r all at.. its jst one of them things if you can afford to try different CAI and see which one works best for your setup and location...dynos r nice for tunning but when it comes down to it they can off a good bit regaurding HP and Trq...but they will be close if the operator has all the pre run checks...i have seen dynos be 200 or more hp off from one another...

Elijahbird7 · Jun 9, 2009

I just installed the BBK cold air intake this weekend on my 08 Vapor GT with 3,300 miles on it. I took it for a short drive after the install, and after warming it up gave it a full power, and the check engine light came on. I took it home, disconnected the battery cable for about 15 minutes and the light was gone. I then drove it about 50 miles without the light coming back on. This morning, on the drive to work, driving conservatively, the light came back on. I went online and ordered the SCT programmer, which will hopefully solve the issue. The advertising on this product stated no tune needed, which didn't turn out to be the case.
I just installed the K&N Typhoon kit on my '09 Solstice, and it gave no codes.

jack1.1 · Jun 9, 2009

typically if the location of the where the MAS is located changes in cross sectional area, then you need a tune.
K&N CAI publishes a 15 hp gain without tune,
06bluegt go back to your post #6 in this thread, the ad for S&B you linked to showed it to be good for 14 hp without a tune. That makes sense and is probably a more accurate statement.

Several magazines did tests on the different CAIs, and the best results were 10 -15 hp without a tune and 25 - 30 hp with a tune and CAI, depending on whose you use. This is of course on a 93 octane tune.

Jack

TPony · Jun 9, 2009

Elijahbird7 said:
I just installed the BBK cold air intake this weekend on my 08 Vapor GT with 3,300 miles on it. I took it for a short drive after the install, and after warming it up gave it a full power, and the check engine light came on. I took it home, disconnected the battery cable for about 15 minutes and the light was gone. I then drove it about 50 miles without the light coming back on. This morning, on the drive to work, driving conservatively, the light came back on. I went online and ordered the SCT programmer, which will hopefully solve the issue. The advertising on this product stated no tune needed, which didn't turn out to be the case.
I just installed the K&N Typhoon kit on my '09 Solstice, and it gave no codes.

Out of curiosity...with MAF is required with the BBK CAI? I got the Granatelli CAI that came with its own MAF. I then got the SCT X3 tuner, but needed to replace the MAF provided by Granatelli with the stock one.

Granatelli · Jul 17, 2009

Hi Everyone - Sorry I have been gone for so long. I spread myself as thin as I can. The question of cold air intakes with or without a tuner has been bouncing back and forth since early 2005 and probably even longer. However when Ford committed to the slot in style meter found in the '04 and up F-150 and '05 and up Stangs - it made a huge impact on the way people tuned and upgraded their cars.

The simple fact is YOU DO NOT NEED A FLASH TUNER TO UNLOCK A LOT OF POWER from your S197. There are Cold Air Intakes out there such as the Granatelli that offer fully calibrated MAF electronics allowing for simple bolt on power in the 20 to 25hp range. WMS and Big Daddy also offer similar systems as does Anderson Ford. These manufactures listed all offer maximum airflow with safe power increases. Then there are the CAI's that choke down the inlet so the stock MAF electronics will work and no tune is needed either. However, these systems can not possibly unlock the full breathing potential of your engine so basically running one of those systems is like driving around with a clogged air filter. Or better yet it is like trying to run a marathon while breathing through a small garden hose. Sure it can be done but it is not the best way to go. The car sounds faster on acceleration but little happens in terms of power increase – perhaps 5 or 6.

Lastly there is the CAI with a tuner. Naturally this is the ultimate way to go. By using the tuner it allows you to do a global range of changes. These changes would yield a performance increase even if you ran the stock intake so is it the CAI that made the power or the tuner – IT IS THE TUNER or should I say flash tool.

Some time back in 2006 one of the magazines did a test – they asked 2 or 3 tuners to do the best tune they could in order to calibrate for the increased airflow of the large highest flowing intake on the market. The assignment was they could only alter the parameters that maintained the proper Air Fuel ratio. They were forbidden to jack up timing as a false bravado or way to make more power because that change had nothing to do with calibrating for increase airflow and more so for just tinkering with making more power. The best tune amounted to a 17hp increase – this was attributed to the increased airflow of the various intakes combined with the proper A/F ratio. Then they tested the GMS intake, Anderson and Big Daddy intakes with their respective calibrated MAFs as delivered. The GMS intake made ½ hp more then the best “tuned” intake attempted by the “tuners”. This proved that a calibrated meter as included with a real high flow intake was equally as viable.

Then they said now you can tune to the best of your ability. Power increased another 6hp showing that by manipulating other parameters that had nothing to do with the cold air systems did offer an additional increase.

So in conclusion - it was the same. When using a calibrated MAF in the proper application it is a powerful as any tuner or flash tool could be for far less money and in the case of Granatelli 50 state legal and did not void the OEM warranty – flash tool and customer tuners and tunes cost sometimes twice as much and are not emissions legal – but yes you get the last 5hp

shatter · Jul 17, 2009

Go to the 5.0 Mustang magazine website and do a search on cold air intakes. They did a huge CAI comparison article with dyno pulls. At the time the JLT2 and C&L setups made the most power (about 25-28 rwhp).

5.0 Magazine CAI Comparison Article

cusp · Jul 19, 2009

CARB

Farzo said:
so which CAI is better the S&B or K&N?

If you go with the Ford Racing CAI kit and tune, you are CARB approved. I read that the others are not. Since you in California, I thought I would mention it. Since I am also in California, I went with the FRPP kit which is the intake they put on their Bullit.

VibrantRedGT · Jul 21, 2009

Granatelli said:
Hi Everyone - Sorry I have been gone for so long. I spread myself as thin as I can. The question of cold air intakes with or without a tuner has been bouncing back and forth since early 2005 and probably even longer. However when Ford committed to the slot in style meter found in the '04 and up F-150 and '05 and up Stangs - it made a huge impact on the way people tuned and upgraded their cars.

The simple fact is YOU DO NOT NEED A FLASH TUNER TO UNLOCK A LOT OF POWER from your S197. There are Cold Air Intakes out there such as the Granatelli that offer fully calibrated MAF electronics allowing for simple bolt on power in the 20 to 25hp range. WMS and Big Daddy also offer similar systems as does Anderson Ford. These manufactures listed all offer maximum airflow with safe power increases. Then there are the CAI's that choke down the inlet so the stock MAF electronics will work and no tune is needed either. However, these systems can not possibly unlock the full breathing potential of your engine so basically running one of those systems is like driving around with a clogged air filter. Or better yet it is like trying to run a marathon while breathing through a small garden hose. Sure it can be done but it is not the best way to go. The car sounds faster on acceleration but little happens in terms of power increase – perhaps 5 or 6.

Lastly there is the CAI with a tuner. Naturally this is the ultimate way to go. By using the tuner it allows you to do a global range of changes. These changes would yield a performance increase even if you ran the stock intake so is it the CAI that made the power or the tuner – IT IS THE TUNER or should I say flash tool.

Some time back in 2006 one of the magazines did a test – they asked 2 or 3 tuners to do the best tune they could in order to calibrate for the increased airflow of the large highest flowing intake on the market. The assignment was they could only alter the parameters that maintained the proper Air Fuel ratio. They were forbidden to jack up timing as a false bravado or way to make more power because that change had nothing to do with calibrating for increase airflow and more so for just tinkering with making more power. The best tune amounted to a 17hp increase – this was attributed to the increased airflow of the various intakes combined with the proper A/F ratio. Then they tested the GMS intake, Anderson and Big Daddy intakes with their respective calibrated MAFs as delivered. The GMS intake made ½ hp more then the best “tuned” intake attempted by the “tuners”. This proved that a calibrated meter as included with a real high flow intake was equally as viable.

Then they said now you can tune to the best of your ability. Power increased another 6hp showing that by manipulating other parameters that had nothing to do with the cold air systems did offer an additional increase.

So in conclusion - it was the same. When using a calibrated MAF in the proper application it is a powerful as any tuner or flash tool could be for far less money and in the case of Granatelli 50 state legal and did not void the OEM warranty – flash tool and customer tuners and tunes cost sometimes twice as much and are not emissions legal – but yes you get the last 5hp

What happened to the GMS cold air kit in last month's 5.0 Magazine? After the GMS CAI kit was installed the motor lost HP. What wasn't explained in the article was the tune. They used a SCT Tuner at the end of the mods. No tune in between? Hard to believe mufflers are worth 5 RWHP and a CAI is -1HP. The car did make 268 RWHP stock and finish at 291RWHP after the tune. The first mod should have been the CAI.

cusp · Jul 22, 2009

Reading all the posts of CAI mods which require tunes implying the need for an expensive tuner and those which do not, it seems to me that the trick to not needing a tuner is to leave the MAF part the same. So long as the calibrated tube which houses the sensor remains stock size you should be fine. Its when a larger housing is used that you mess with the sensor's calibration as to the amount of air flowing through the pipe. If an after market device uses the same MAF and calibration, any increased flow would be measured properly in the system and would therefore allow the computer to adjust the fuel flows correctly.

Cold air intake w/o tune

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