Comp cams Stage 2 and 3 questions

Schlitz-420 · Nov 28, 2006

Has anyone installed a cam in their S197 and if so what info do you have to offer? This looks to be a relatively cheap upgrade compared to an SC or Turbo. Do any of you have any idea what the install cost might be (I am assuming it is out of my realm of expertise)? Is this something you guys would recommend? I mainly want it for the power but I also am looking for the deep gurgling idle my Camaro had after I had a more aggressive cam installed. Thanks in advance!

These links are to two sites where the cams are being sold.

http://www.bamachips.com/store/inde..._id=54&zenid=d58922ba51819df94705eabd7ba2aa3f

http://www.modularmustangracing.com/

Pro Mod · Nov 28, 2006

Guys with the Crane Stage 3 cams are gaining approximately 30 rwhp all throughout the 4,000+ range. Below that, the #'s seem to be +/- a couple hp/tq, which is fine by me. The car makes plenty low end power as-is for daily driving, and I'm never really below 4,000 rpms when racing anyway.

The general consensus seems to be that the cam install itself isn't TOO bad, but the required valvespring change for anything above the Stage 1 cam is the bitch of the process.

mikes06gt · Nov 28, 2006

i wonder how much if any drivability is lost with the stage 3?would it be a bad idea for a car that is mostly street driven,not a daily driver just my toy, that sees some track time?

Jimp · Nov 28, 2006

What about the Stage IVs? Is it too radical for a daily driver? I'm confused about all these stages, lol.

SVTdriver · Nov 28, 2006

Jimp said:
What about the Stage IVs? Is it too radical for a daily driver? I'm confused about all these stages, lol.

Schlitz-420 · Nov 28, 2006

Pro Mod said:
Guys with the Crane Stage 3 cams are gaining approximately 30 rwhp all throughout the 4,000+ range. Below that, the #'s seem to be +/- a couple hp/tq, which is fine by me. The car makes plenty low end power as-is for daily driving, and I'm never really below 4,000 rpms when racing anyway.

The general consensus seems to be that the cam install itself isn't TOO bad, but the required valvespring change for anything above the Stage 1 cam is the bitch of the process.

Thanks a lot man. So if i went with a "Stage II" cam how expensive do you think the install would be? Should i let me buddy that is ASE certified with his own shop for years do this or should i only allow a speed shop with exp on S197s do the work? Is the valvespring adjustment something that any good mechanic should be able to do correctly or can a cam be like gears: easily done wrong? Thanks again.

bigcat · Nov 28, 2006

from what i have gathered, the VCT is the tricky part of the swap. if its not properly installed, then it can create HUGE problems. i dont have any specific links, sorry.

about the cams them selves, here is a quote from brenspeeds website:

Brenspeed.com said:
When we picked up our 2005 Mustang GT back in late 2004 we knew it had tons of potential. Only through the detailed and intense R&D that we perform do you really find out what works and what does not. We have tested about every part on the market and not often is it worth writing about. With the introduction of Comp Cams 3 valve camshafts we knew it was time to put yet another part to the test. We opted for what Comp calls Stage 3 cams. These cams are VERY mild as far as we are concerned and should be called Stage 1. For various reason that we won't go into here this is the largest cam you will find Comp selling for a while. They idle mild, drive like stock, yet add a TON of power. The actual specs of the cams are…

Advertised Duration: 261 Intake / 278 Exhaust
Lift : .490 Intake / .480 Exhaust
Lobe Separation: 115.5 Degree

Pro Mod · Nov 28, 2006

What bigcat stated is pretty much the same thing I've read/heard. Everybody with these cams say they idle/drive like stock. Doug @ Bamachips also stated that anything under the Crane "Stage 3" cam isn't worth installing, since his car lost NO driveability or idle issues with the "Bamachips grind" which is basically a variation of the Stage 3.

The general consensus is "go stage 3 or go home"

I'm just waiting to do my heads/cams at the same time because *I* sure don't wanna mess with the valvesprings or the VCT stuff.

Jimp · Nov 28, 2006

SVTdriver said:

Not sure what that is supposed to mean.

Schlitz-420 · Nov 28, 2006

bigcat said:
from what i have gathered, the VCT is the tricky part of the swap. if its not properly installed, then it can create HUGE problems. i dont have any specific links, sorry.

about the cams them selves, here is a quote from brenspeeds website:

Thanks as usual cat. I remember reading that at bama as well. So from the sounds of it the current stage 3 cam will not give me that vicious idle I am looking for. If I want that idle should I just wait and save $$ for some heads as well? Thanks again.

creedog · Nov 28, 2006

Just from what I have been able to find out, if you want that "lope idle" then you will need to go w/ BBR (Blow-By-Racing) cams. Their "stage 2" seem to be the most are going with if they are selecting that company. I am still on the fence about whether to go w/ Comp stage III or BBR stage II. Again, just what I have gathered, BBR will not net you the same amt of rwhp/rwtq gains one can find w/ Comp but they do sound better. If this helps any. Some members on various mustang sites have good things to say about BBR, while others do not. I guess it requires a call to them. And what direction do you want to go with the car? I want the power gains and the known research Comp did on their cams and the "sound" of BBR cams.

1ba96gt · Nov 30, 2006

I have the stage 3's and they are great on the road. The idle is actually extremely mild. I picked up almost 30rwhp from them. I'd highly recommend them. As far as install I had it done, so can't comment on the difficultly.

bigcat · Nov 30, 2006

how much was the labor?

1ba96gt · Dec 2, 2006

bigcat said:
how much was the labor?

My dad actually runs a high performance shop. So, I don't know. I can ask him what they typically run though. I'll try to post back.

Schlitz-420 · Dec 7, 2006

creedog said:
Just from what I have been able to find out, if you want that "lope idle" then you will need to go w/ BBR (Blow-By-Racing) cams. Their "stage 2" seem to be the most are going with if they are selecting that company. I am still on the fence about whether to go w/ Comp stage III or BBR stage II. Again, just what I have gathered, BBR will not net you the same amt of rwhp/rwtq gains one can find w/ Comp but they do sound better. If this helps any. Some members on various mustang sites have good things to say about BBR, while others do not. I guess it requires a call to them. And what direction do you want to go with the car? I want the power gains and the known research Comp did on their cams and the "sound" of BBR cams.

Thanks a lot. I want both the sound and the power. Would you guys suggest waiting for a different cam or adding heads too? Thanks.

AlloyGT · Dec 10, 2006

Does anyone know what swapping cams would do to your emissions? My car is currently emissions exempt, because it is new, but in four years, I'll have to start having it "sniffed" every two years. I'd really like to get the Stage 3 cams and the new FAST intake next spring. Has anyone gone through emissions testing (not just visual inspection) with the Stage 3 cams?

khendrix2374 · Dec 11, 2006

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4593046482213742032&q=race+cams

BBR race cams video.. Sounds pretty awesome.

MBDiagMan · Dec 12, 2006

Modifying any engine by installing wilder cams basically raises the horsepower by shifting the torque peak to a higher RPM. This is all well and good as far as horsepower increase, thus lower ET's are concerned.

Keep in mind, however, that by raising the torque peak and running your engine at higher RPM will GREATLY stress the rods. The rods in these engines are most definitely the weak link. I personally would not cam one of these engines and drive it to take advantage of the cam without going to a good set of forged rods. The result of NOT going to forged rods will likely be a windowed block at some point in your future.

Good luck,

Rock36 · Dec 12, 2006

MBDiagMan said:
Modifying any engine by installing wilder cams basically raises the horsepower by shifting the torque peak to a higher RPM. This is all well and good as far as horsepower increase, thus lower ET's are concerned.

Keep in mind, however, that by raising the torque peak and running your engine at higher RPM will GREATLY stress the rods. The rods in these engines are most definitely the weak link. I personally would not cam one of these engines and drive it to take advantage of the cam without going to a good set of forged rods. The result of NOT going to forged rods will likely be a windowed block at some point in your future.

Good luck,

While I agree with the principles that you are talking about, I don't know that a cam adds enough torque in the upper rpm range to significantly threaten the longevity of the rods.

There are many people safely running power adders on the stock rotating assembly. And just about any supercharger for the S197 will produce more torque throughout the entire RPM range than a cammed N/A setup will.

To me, the stress of gaining 20-30 rwtq in the 4000+ rpm range from a camshaft doesn't compare to the stress of a blower giving you 80+ rwtq in the 4000+ rpm range.

Schlitz-420 · Dec 12, 2006

MBDiagMan said:
Modifying any engine by installing wilder cams basically raises the horsepower by shifting the torque peak to a higher RPM. This is all well and good as far as horsepower increase, thus lower ET's are concerned.

Keep in mind, however, that by raising the torque peak and running your engine at higher RPM will GREATLY stress the rods. The rods in these engines are most definitely the weak link. I personally would not cam one of these engines and drive it to take advantage of the cam without going to a good set of forged rods. The result of NOT going to forged rods will likely be a windowed block at some point in your future.

Good luck,

OK, so then am i being naive or would it not cost that much more to get forged rods/pistons (crank too?) installed with new cams and heads? i plan to add a SC later so this would likely prep the inside for more power. Another question is if i do this now will i be safe to push 550-650HP through the assembly? Thanks guys.

Comp cams Stage 2 and 3 questions

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