Conversion? EFI to Carb

[795.0pacecar]

plus i can have the topend off the engine in 30-40 minutes. try that with efi.

I've done it a few times. I can have the upper and lower intake and valve covers off in 30 min.

 

[LEE93COBRA]

I've done it a few times. I can have the upper and lower intake and valve covers off in 30 min.

+1

 

[dragnazz5.0]

I seriously doubt that there are more than a handful of people here that can accurately & completely explain how many flow circuits are in a carb and how they work. Simplicity is an illusion...

power circuit, idle circuit, choke circuit, float circuit, low speed circuit, main metering circuit, accelerator pump circuit

its too much to type up what each one does exactly

 

[dastang2]

I've done it a few times. I can have the upper and lower intake and valve covers off in 30 min.

heads too, i'm talking the whole top end.

on another note, if there is something major wrong with your fuel system that stumps you and others or something that costs way to much to fix, then get a street avenger 570 carb and a weiend stealth intake. your gonna need a return style regulator to return the extra fuel that the stock in tank fuel pump will send. you will need to get a dizzy off of an 85 gt with 5spd. and a 4bbl. or get any aftermarket item that will work with a carb and has a steel gear. you would need to get an ignition box such as the stock duraspark or msd. you just need to weigh out the cost of fixing and/or modding the efi against going carbureted and see which would be a best bet

 

[vristang]

power circuit, idle circuit, choke circuit, float circuit, low speed circuit, main metering circuit, accelerator pump circuit

its too much to type up what each one does exactly

Carbs don't look that simple any more.

A carb combines several systems into one unit for convenience/packaging.

EFI spreads things out so that each system can be optimized. Then allows a computer to fully control each system.

 

[vristang]

heads too, i'm talking the whole top end.

I don't see what this has to do with anything.

I can get to that point in a similar time frame, with my efi car.

It's not like I have to remove each individual sensor from the manifold.

The system was well designed for removals.
Unplug the salt -n- pepper shakers and 98% of the electrical is done.

This is just another example of someone who knows little about efi, trying to complain about its complexity.

It isn't as bad as the old school gear heads would have us believe.

I'll admit that the first time I pulled the motor apart, I had no idea what was going on. HOWEVER, that was the first time I had pulled apart any motor, and I still didn't know what all the sensors were for.
Now that I have taken the time to learn about efi, it seems pretty basic.

jason

 

[vristang]

Thanks for the recommendations.

I run EFI on my stang and love it. I don't have many mods so I never played with the computer or much of anything other than a Mass Air Conversion, TB replacment, etc.

My brother has a 4-cyl/5.0 conversion. The car has a erractic idle to have just a E303 cam and jerks when you let off the pedal. Let's not talk about the Gas fumes. Obviously there is a problem with fuel enrichment or the lack of it.

I've had similar problems with my car in the past and a can of brake cleaner and a cotton swab fixed the problem. I just cleaned the element in my MAM. Every now and then it still jerks a little when I left off the pedal. I blame it on the absence of a bypass for the supercharger.

Back to the EFI/Carb. The reason for the swap is just basically simplicity. Everything on the car is old, wires, injectors, TB, intake. The only thing new is a MAM, fuel pressure regulator, and fuel pump.

After reading the replies, it may not be such a simple task.

I was just wanting to weigh the costs to fix the EFI or switch over. Money is always an issue as well as MPG these days.

Have your brother post up his combo and describe what the car is doing.
I am sure someone here has had similar issues with the 2.3 conversion.

As far as the cost to fix EFI vs switch over to carb...
If you flat out replace every sensor on the efi system then it may be a toss up.

Most likely you will have a bad EGR, an ACT/ECT, and maybe O2s.
In my 10yrs with my car I have not had any other sensor fail.
I am not saying that other sensors don't fail, but the 4 that I mention above seem to be the most likely culprits, in my experience.

Please keep us posted on how things work out for you.
jason

 

[dragnazz5.0]

Carbs don't look that simple any more.

A carb combines several systems into one unit for convenience/packaging.

EFI spreads things out so that each system can be optimized. Then allows a computer to fully control each system.

yeah, but figuring out how a carb works is cake work compared to figuring out how the pcm works.

 

[vristang]

yeah, but figuring out how a carb works is cake work compared to figuring out how the pcm works.

For the level of knowledge needed to diagnose a problem, there is not that much to learn.
You need to know what sensors are used and what they are used for. Other than that all you NEED to know is how to pull the codes.


I hate to be so argumentative,
but I don't see the argument that "EFI is too hard to diagnose" as a legitimate one in the EFI vs Carb debate.


One book can tell you all you will need to know.
Ford Fuel Injection & Electronic Engine Control 1988-1993
written by Probst

jason

 

[jrichker]

yeah, but figuring out how a carb works is cake work compared to figuring out how the pcm works.

I'd tell you to explain & try to tune something like an IDA 48 Weber downdraft carb. Then you would change your mind...

By the way, the IDA 48 Weber is used in GP sports cars for High Performance applications. $3000 gets you 4 of them and a manifold for your 5.0 engine. Great choice for racing something like an original AC Cobra or Factory Five Cobra reproduction.

 

[dastang2]

did somebody offend you or something. :OT: really all the guy asked was what parts to get and how to start the conversion and not a bunch of mumbo jumbo crap about what fuel system is better than the other. they both have their pro's and con's. efi is much too expensive and has too many ugly wires and a carb system is the opposite. just trying to clear this thread up a bit because there are plenty of debates on many forums that cover this same topic and they will never end.

 

[R2D2]

did somebody offend you or something. :OT: really all the guy asked was what parts to get and how to start the conversion and not a bunch of mumbo jumbo crap about what fuel system is better than the other. they both have their pro's and con's. efi is much too expensive and has too many ugly wires and a carb system is the opposite. just trying to clear this thread up a bit because there are plenty of debates on many forums that cover this same topic and they will never end.

no doubt all you see are the efi guys try to discourage someone from running a carb instead of helping them which would leave one to believe they themselves are clueless on carbs therefore they just talk down about them

 

[jrichker]

The problem I have with carb conversions is that many of them are hack jobs. The computer is left installed in an attempt to control the spark advance, fuel pump and ignition. The computer and its wiring should be neatly removed,and stored away. Then a relay triggered by the ignition switch should be installed for the proper low pressure electric fuel pump. A Durspark or Crane distributor should be used for the ignition.

Do NASCAR quality work and you will have a fine machine. I see nothing wrong with a carb for a car that does more strip time than street time.

 

[dragnazz5.0]

I'd tell you to explain & try to tune something like an IDA 48 Weber downdraft carb. Then you would change your mind...

By the way, the IDA 48 Weber is used in GP sports cars for High Performance applications. $3000 gets you 4 of them and a manifold for your 5.0 engine. Great choice for racing something like an original AC Cobra or Factory Five Cobra reproduction.

never heard of that carb and honestly ive never used a carb on one of my cars but i understand fully how they work. ive done some work on a 78 spitfire that has 4 SU motorcycle carbs on it...kinda trick at first but really easy to work with.

i understand that there is a wealth of knowledge out there for ford EFI but ive always liked carb cars and the simplicity involved. in my case im not so much doing it to get away from efi problems and searching through wiring diagrams to figure stuff out but im doing it for aesthetics and because its something that ive never done or had to deal with and it will definetly be a challenge.

 

[jrichker]

no doubt all you see are the efi guys try to discourage someone from running a carb instead of helping them which would leave one to believe they themselves are clueless on carbs therefore they just talk down about them

My first experiences with carbs probably dates back before you were born. The first carb I took apart was in the ealy 60's and it was off a go cart with a lawn mower engine. Stromberg, Rochester, Carter, SU, Bendix, Zenith and a few that I can’t begin to remember. I have worked on carbs on everything from lawn mowers to sports cars, Chevy, Olds, Ford, even aircraft engines. I hold a FAA Airframe and Powerplant license and spent 11 years fixing airplanes. The only series of carb that I missed working on was the Weber carbs, which are probably some of the best made. All that, and I still haven’t seen one that can compare to the Ford EFI in our Mustangs when it comes to all weather, all altitude, no complaint performance and good gas mileage.

 

[88Stang331]

Stay with the EFI, it's better on fuel and more driveable than a carb setup. But all it takes is a new intake and a carb, low pressure fuel pump, and a bit of messing with the vacuum lines. Of course the EEC IV will hate you.

http://www.jason.fletcher.net/tech/efi-carb/efi-carb.htm

+1 there is a reason that EFI came after Carbeurated...you may not believe in human evolution, but technological evolution is quite different.

 

[R2D2]

My first experiences with carbs probably dates back before you were born. The first carb I took apart was in the ealy 60's and it was off a go cart with a lawn mower engine. Stromberg, Rochester, Carter, SU, Bendix, Zenith and a few that I can’t begin to remember. I have worked on carbs on everything from lawn mowers to sports cars, Chevy, Olds, Ford, even aircraft engines. I hold a FAA Airframe and Powerplant license and spent 11 years fixing airplanes. The only series of carb that I missed working on was the Weber carbs, which are probably some of the best made. All that, and I still haven’t seen one that can compare to the Ford EFI in our Mustangs when it comes to all weather, all altitude, no complaint performance and good gas mileage.

im done arguing, I will stay with my holleys, you stay efi and atleast give someone the help they are asking for instead the constant bashing all you efi guys do

 

[vristang]

im done arguing, I will stay with my holleys, you stay efi and atleast give someone the help they are asking for instead the constant bashing all you efi guys do

All I ever hear from carb guys is how horrible efi is.

We are not the only one doing a little bashing here.

 

[R2D2]

All I ever hear from carb guys is how horrible efi is.

We are not the only one doing a little bashing here.

Ok sounds good, all I can say is I read only 5-6 forums daily out of the 1000's of them, take a peek at the dozens and dozens and dozens of efi problem threads. But for the sake of child bashing, efi is the best, works better than carbs, is easy to fix when its broken and is the only way to go, happy? Good

 

[vristang]

Ok sounds good, all I can say is I read only 5-6 forums daily out of the 1000's of them, take a peek at the dozens and dozens and dozens of efi problem threads. But for the sake of child bashing, efi is the best, works better than carbs, is easy to fix when its broken and is the only way to go, happy? Good