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  • 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-
  • Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech

Convertible Top Help

  • Thread starter Thread starter LILCBRA
  • Start date Start date Mar 1, 2016

LILCBRA

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air
Mod Dude
Dec 6, 2005
6,365
5,346
194
Corn County USA
Mar 1, 2016
#1
  • Mar 1, 2016
  • #1
Ok, here's what has gone on so far. We just bought this car not too long ago. It appears to be an all stock 87 GT convertible. When we brought it home, the top was in working order although the top is tattered. We replaced the gauge cluster as a PO installed some cheap @$$ white overlays which weren't correct. We ended up replacing the headlight switch and connector at that time as the wiring to the switch was all individually plugged in. Now, where the problems lie are the dash lights only work when the interior lights are turned on with the dimmer and the top no longer goes down. At this time, I am only working with the top as I am trying to take the driver's rear interior panel out to be able to fix the window which is stuck down. The top motor sounds like it is working to raise the top, but not to lower it. So far, I have tried swapping the relays and pulled the switch from the dash pod. Swapping the relays did not change anything, the motor reacted the same with either relay in either place. I have looked at the wiring diagram and am a little stumped right now. With the key on, I am getting about 8-10 volts on a purple/red wire at all times and 8-10 volt on a solid purple wire only when the switch is activated to raise the top. I haven't tried swapping the relays back yet to verify if I indeed have a bad relay or if I have something else going on. Another question I have is there are 2 wires within the connector at the switch, but the switch has 3 blades? Am I missing a wire somewhere? The diagram doesn't show a 3rd wire, but it has me questioning WTH this blade is? Anyway, I hope this explains what I am running into well enough. Any help/suggestions are greatly appreciated as I absolutely hate wiring although it is a necessary evil. Now back to the car and see if I can figure anything out. Thanks for any input!!
 

LILCBRA

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air
Mod Dude
Dec 6, 2005
6,365
5,346
194
Corn County USA
Mar 1, 2016
#2
  • Mar 1, 2016
  • #2
Hot-wired the top to retract, so the motor is good. The top started to raise when I tried with the switch, so no problems raising, only lowering.

Now, another question for anyone, the driver rear window will not go up, but will go down with the switch. The motor tries to raise, but will not move. I don't see anything mechanically wrong in there. Has anyone run into this? I haven't torn anything out as far as the window mechanism yet. I'm hoping as I get a little deeper that I find something simple.....
 

jrichker

StangNet's favorite TOOL
In Remembrance. Thank you for your contributions
Mar 10, 2000
27,512
2,813
234
Dublin GA
Mar 1, 2016
#3
  • Mar 1, 2016
  • #3
Diagrams courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

Convertible top diagram


See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring; http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/ Everyone should bookmark this site.

94-95 Mustang wiring diagrams
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/#95-95Diagrams

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 91-93 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

O2 sensor wiring harness
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangO2Harness.gif

Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg

HVAC vacuum diagram
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang_AC_heat_vacuum_controls.gif

TFI module differences & pin out
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/TFI_5.0_comparison.gif

Fuse box layout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/MustangFuseBox.gif

Mustang 5.0 Lights and Radio schematic, by TMoss:
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxLights-Radio_diag.gif

87-92 power window wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustang87-92 PowerWindowWiring.gif

93 power window wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustang93PowerWindows.gif

T5 Cutaway showing T5 internal parts
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/5_Speed_Cutaway_Illustrated.jpg

Visual comparison of the Ford Fuel Injectors, picture by TMoss:
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Ford_Injector_Guide.jpg

Convertible top motor wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustang88VertTopMotorCkt.gif

Engine mounted fuel injector harness
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangEngineHarness.gif tang/tech/engine/images/mustang88VertTopMotorCkt.gif
 

LILCBRA

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air
Mod Dude
Dec 6, 2005
6,365
5,346
194
Corn County USA
Mar 1, 2016
#4
  • Mar 1, 2016
  • #4
Thanks for the links, but I've already found them through the search. What I am at a loss about is why there are three male connectors in the switch, why I have power going into the one side of the switch at all times when the key is on, and if anyone has had any kind of non-electrical issue with the back windows. I still don't see anything mechanically that jumps out as to why it seems to hang up when trying to go up, but it has to be mechanical somewhere. Just curious if there were any common problems to pay specific attention to. The power mechanism for the top in the 84 vert that we had didn't work either, but we were able to operate it manually. We aren't so lucky with the 87.
 

LILCBRA

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air
Mod Dude
Dec 6, 2005
6,365
5,346
194
Corn County USA
Mar 1, 2016
#5
  • Mar 1, 2016
  • #5
After playing with the window, there was indeed nothing mechanically wrong with it, but it was pretty sticky when the window was almost all the way down. I ended up spraying some WD down there and working it up and down by hand to free it up. The window motor seems to be on it's last leg though. It is fine going down (gravity works ya know....) but coming up it struggles. The window will come up easy enough with a little manual help, but the motor doesn't seem to have the power any more. I guess I should mention that it hits a spot on the way down that the window seems to basically just drop a little bit. I guess it's time for a new window motor. Time to hit up the Pull a Part sometime soon. We have a shopping list building. Also, time to do a little research again to see which motors are interchangeable with the rears.....
 

89oem

Mustang Master
Dec 18, 2013
1,456
542
144
Mar 2, 2016
#6
  • Mar 2, 2016
  • #6
Bet its the 3 drive bushings in the drive gear housing - fix $2
 

LILCBRA

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air
Mod Dude
Dec 6, 2005
6,365
5,346
194
Corn County USA
Mar 8, 2016
#7
  • Mar 8, 2016
  • #7
We got the new window motors today and installed the driver side. After lubing the regulator bushings and installation of the new motor, the window works as it should! Now on to the passenger side, then figure out what the deal is with the top!
 

90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands
SN Certified Technician
Mar 2, 2015
6,945
5,816
213
Mar 9, 2016
#8
  • Mar 9, 2016
  • #8
If you want to work it manually unbolt the cylinders from the top frame. You can reach them from the back seat area. Just be careful raising and lowering the top. Frames have been known to crack because of manual operation. If I remember correctly there should be three wire running to that switch. You have power from the ignition switch...then the switch applies that power to either the raise pin or the lowering pin.
I do a lot of convertible work. To temporarily patch the top gorilla tape works the best. (The black tape). I know a guy that covered his whole top with that stuff...stayed on.
 
Reactions: LILCBRA

LILCBRA

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air
Mod Dude
Dec 6, 2005
6,365
5,346
194
Corn County USA
Mar 11, 2016
#9
  • Mar 11, 2016
  • #9
Thanks! There are 3 spade connections on the switch, but only 2 wires running to it IIRC. It's been a few weeks since I had it apart now, but remember there only being 2 wires and 3 terminals. We have a new top waiting to be installed and have the old top mostly ripped off. We now have a concrete crew here prepping for a garage pad and driveway install and the vert is in the carport attached to the house. I'm pretty sure it's not going to be leaving the carport for a couple more weeks, but when it does, I'm really thinking of having someone install the top instead of us trying to tackle it at home. Normally I would throw caution to the wind and just dive into it but I want it to fit properly so I figure it may be best leaving it to the professionals. If we get some free time, maybe I'll get the dash pod torn off again and see if I can find an extra wire and get the top motor working properly again. I suspect something happened when I had the pod off replacing the gauges. For now, to raise it, the switch works fine, but I "hot-wire" the motor to drop it.
 
Reactions: 89oem

90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands
SN Certified Technician
Mar 2, 2015
6,945
5,816
213
Mar 11, 2016
#10
  • Mar 11, 2016
  • #10
My Vert had a wire tat used to fall out the connector. I ended up getting a new connector from the junk yard. If I had a garage the sky would be the limit. The tops aren't that complicated. The hardest thing to find are the correct staples. Professionals will get it done better though...for sure. Warranties are nice too.
 

LILCBRA

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air
Mod Dude
Dec 6, 2005
6,365
5,346
194
Corn County USA
Mar 14, 2016
#11
  • Mar 14, 2016
  • #11
Yeah, the wife and I had planned on installing the top together, but I definitely don't have the correct staples and also don't know how the front is attached exactly yet. Between that and having a thousand other projects going at once (having a garage built, pouring a new driveway, remodeling a basement kitchen into a bar area, have to put my II back together and working on the convertible besides running the kids to their stuff....), I just feel like it would be better off going to a pro. I know neither of us want it to look like a shoddy job, and with so much going on I am starting to question everything! Besides, it's going to have to go to a body shop since she wants to take it to Myrtle Beach Mustang Week and there is no way I'll be able to get it back together and presentable before then with so much going on.
 

LILCBRA

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air
Mod Dude
Dec 6, 2005
6,365
5,346
194
Corn County USA
Mar 15, 2016
#12
  • Mar 15, 2016
  • #12
Ok, had/have a little time to work on the car today. I've been out with it for a little bit, taken the top switch from the pod and found a grey wire that was disconnected. Walla!! Top works as it should now! Still plugging away at removing the top and will have to investigate the dash lights, but making slow progress!!
 
Reactions: stykthyn

LILCBRA

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air
Mod Dude
Dec 6, 2005
6,365
5,346
194
Corn County USA
Mar 15, 2016
#13
  • Mar 15, 2016
  • #13
The top is removed and started working on the dash light issue. Another thread has been started concerning that. We'll see about the top another day....
 

LILCBRA

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air
Mod Dude
Dec 6, 2005
6,365
5,346
194
Corn County USA
Mar 17, 2016
#14
  • Mar 17, 2016
  • #14
Ordered new weatherstripping for the top as well as a new dimmer switch for the dash lights. Will continue after we receive them and get back at it....
 
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