Coolant Leaking - Not Good

[95BlackTan50]

I've got a coolant leak that seems to be coming from my timing chain cover, right behind the tensioner pully. If I pour coolant in, it will immediately start dripping out. I disconnected the "L" shaped hose that goes from the intake to the top output of the water pump to see if the water pump was leaking. The water level did not drop in the water pump so I'm guessing the water pump is not leaking. I also disconnected the upper hose that feeds the water neck to the thermostat and intake and filled the neck with water and it slowly leaked out. I'm trying to figure out my next step. Should I start with the intake or is there a reason I should take the water pump and timing cover off? The water pump seems to work and will keep the car cool until the coolant leaks out.

If there is water behind the timing chain cover, shouldn't there be coolant in my oil? I just changed my oil and I didn't see any coolant in it.

Any thoughts would help. Thanks.

Barney

 

[Vipersix]

Hmm.... My immediate thought was that you have a bad seal in your pump, but if you say that it's not leaking from the pump...

If you can narrow the leakage area to a single point that would be the easiest to attempt a diagnosis. If it slowly leaks out of the intake opening yet does not go to your oil pan it could possibly be leaking into your cylinders. I'd try pulling the #4 and #5 plugs to see if the tips are wet. Might even try turning it over once to ensure nothing squeezes out.

If it's not going into your cylinders, it could be coming out the front into the timing cover. Of course, then you'd have water in your oil. Hmm...

I suppose it's possible to have a bad seal between the cover and the pump. But you said it's not leaking from the pump side. Jeesh! How odd!

Pictures are worth a thousand words. Check out the two plugs and try to take a picture of it leaking if possible.

 

[earleys94gt]

Start with checking the water neck gasket.

Does it leak from above the water pump?

If it does, it could be the Coolant Temprature sensor "plug".

Like Vipersix said, a pic. would be helpful.

 

[95BlackTan50]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the replies. The frustrating thing so far is that I haven't found a single point of a leak. As you can see from the first picture, there is a lot of coolant leaking.

The second picture shows the only real sign of a leak (white arrow), but it seems way too small to be causing all of the coolant dripping on the bottom.

I drained some more oil out and it wasn't obvious to me that there was water in it but I can't guarantee that there wasn't any. I checked spark plugs 1, 4 and 5 and they were dry.

The top of the water pump and timing cover are dry and the water neck is tight. The height of the leak seems to be at about halfway down the water pump. I can't see anything looking from the top down.


I'm about at a coin toss between pulling the water pump and timing chain cover first or the intake maifold.

 

[Vipersix]

I flipped the first picture so it looked as if I was under the car and it appears that there is no coolant leaking down the front. There is a small bead on the balancer with a hint of some on the front, but most looks to be coming from the passenger side a short ways back on the block. Water travels in some funny places as it gets pulled along by gravity so who knows exactly where it's coming from, but my vote is still for the water pump.

Pretend the following picture has a mechanical water pump rather than electric and follow the red lines which simulate water flow. This is the most realistic option I think you're looking at. The water pump is also the easiest to remove and inspect so it's a good place to start.

 

[Vipersix]

On second thought... it might be a head gasket.

 

[94-302-vert]

rinse off the engine, let it dry, then refill it and see where it is coming from...

 

[95BlackTan50]

Ok, so I ran out of time this weekend and brought it to the dealer for a diagnosis. They told me that the timing cover needed to be replaced and would be glad to do it for $750 parts and labor.



Needless to say, I just found time to do it myself. I don't know how they would know that the timing cover was bad, or what would go bad with a timing cover unless it cracked for some reason. I'm not sure why there should be water behind the timing chain cover to begin with unless it were leaking from either the water pump of from the intake or head gaskets.

Time for some more exploratory dissassembly. Thanks for you inputs.

Barney

 

[BlackVert]

hey ... i'll do it for $700.

seriously tho ... i have a leak in a similar area, but it seems to only leak while the engine is not not warmed up (before the thermostat opens). my builder put a pump on the radiatior to pressurize it and we could easily see that it was coming out at the water pump, at the gasket between the pump and the timing cover. if you know someone with one of those radiator pressurizing pumps, it might make finding it easier.

i have a 94/95 timing cover sitting on my desk at work, so if you really do need one, let me know.

i will be pulling my water pump off at some point to deal with it. when i do i can take pics if it would help, but it might be a week or 2 before i get to it. also, i have fox accessories, and i don't know how different they are from the 94/95 ones ...

 

[Vipersix]

There can't possibly be a leak behind the timing cover or you'd have all sorts of water in your oil. I'm still guessing it has something to do with your gaskets, either heads or water pump (pump for your sake).

One thing you might want to consider, depending on how frisky you want to get, is to change to the older style timing cover. My water pump went bad and discovered that they are about $85 a pop when you can get the '79-'93 pump for $15. The timing cover itself is gonna run you about $100 or the older one for approx. $25. Granted, there are a few alterations that would need to be done, but it's something to consider if you end up needing a new pump and/or timing cover.

 

[95BlackTan50]

hey ... i'll do it for $700.

Thanks for the offer Chris. I just need to stop being lazy. Ever since I fixed my vibration problem a year ago I got used to just driving my car and not turning wrenches on it.

I stopped by the parts shop at a different Ford dealer to get some information and he told me that there were a couple of water paths from the block to the water pump that would come from behind the timing chain cover. The timing chain cover gasket could be the source of the leak. I'll be pulling it off tonight or tomorrow to see what's going on. If the intake or head gaskets are leaking I should be able to see that with the timing cover off. It's been about 3 years since I did the cam and I don't remember it being very hard to remove. I think removing the old gasket material is what takes all of the time.

BTW, the other Ford dealer had a price of about $350 for the cover and I think Summit has one for under $100. Hopefully I won't need one at all.

 

[RFMustangGT]

If you got time, might want to run the timing chain cover by your local machine shop and have the surfaces decked lightly. Mine had a slight warpage to it. Machine shop just roughed it up and made sure everything was square. Cost me around 20 bucks to have it done.

 

[SVTtripleblack]

I had to have my timing cover gasket replaced because it was leaking at the same spot. It wasn't as bad as what you are describing, but it was coming from the exact same spot and a new gasket took care of it. I like to do my own work too, but maybe you should just pay someone to look at it. It wasn't all that expensive to replace if I remember correctly.

 

[95BlackTan50]

I pulled the timing chain cover off last night and it looks like the gasket around the two water channels in the block had pretty much evaporated. No sign of gasket on the block or the cover. That seems like a probable source of the leak.

RFMustangGT, I like your idea about the machine shop. I have a guy that did a flywheel for me and he was pretty reasonable. I haven't checked for warpage yet since I haven't cleaned off the gasket surfaces yet. That's tonight's fun job.

To make sure that there are no other leaks in the head or intake gaskets, I should be able to plug the two water channels in the block and pour water into the water neck on the intake and look for leaks. If water doesn't drain out, then the other gaskets should be ok? I started to do that last night but a wine cork is too narrow and wrapping it with duct tape doesn't provide a good watertight seal.

 

[95BlackTan50]

Ok, it looks like I'm up and running and DRY so far. All I needed to do was replace the timing cover gasket. For some reason the gasket/RTV that I put on there about three years ago decided to break through where the coolant goes from the block to the water pump behind the timing chain cover. So far so good. Thanks for the inputs.

Barney