cranks, but no start

[Blackened302]

alright, just yesterday i replaced the radiator that cracked on wednesday night and all was fine and dandy. i go to my bro-in-law's house to help him do yet another engine swap and cruise home fine afterwards. i'm going out w/ my gf that night, and on the way to her house my car starts to overheat (got to the L on the temp guage). i immediately pull over and let it cool off. once it does, i start it back up and noticed the fan wasn't turning on. i pop the hood and smack the ccrm a few times until it does (and also turned the a/c on high/max) and it begins to cool, finally.

i go home to get the Jeep, not wanting to risk anything with the car, and as i'm about to pull up to the driveway, there's a loud backfire (that sounded like an exhaust backfire) and the engine shuts off. i try and start it, but all it does is crank and crank and crank. we pushed it up to the driveway.

i go outside today and check the following:
-fuel pump safety switch--on
-verify that maf, tps, iac are connected
-check to make sure the dizzy isnt' loose
-checked 5 of 8 plugs that all look ok
-checked the connections at the dizzy, coil, and wires (including the wiring harnesses that connects to the dizzy and coil)
-check to make sure the 2 harness i disconnected while swapping radiators were well-connected


when i turn the key, i can hear the fuel pump prime. i tried priming it thrice before starting and no change--it just cranks and doesn't fire.

i'm thinking i should check the fuel pressure, but i don't have a guage to connect to the rail.

how can i check for spark?

think the ccrm could affect this? i know there's a relay for the fuel pump, but i do hear the pump prime...?

 

[The Green GT]

Im not sure how to check fuel pressure but you might have a problem with the stator.

 

[Blackened302]

what/where is the stator?

 

[The Green GT]

The PIP.

Its the sensor in the distributor.

when mine went out it would crank but not start. I pulled codes and it told me it was bad. So I changed the dist. Also check injector pulsing.

 

[HISSIN50]

To test spark, grab an old spark plug and set it on top of the intake. Pull a plug wire and install it on the plug. Crank the engine over. Watch for spark jumping the plug gap. Just make sure the threads of the plug are grounded or the test is invalid.

A noid light or LED test light can be used for testing injector pulsing.

If you're missing both spark and injector pulsing (but have 12 volts going to the injectors with the key on), think PIP.
If you have injector pulsing but no spark, the PIP should be okay. Think TFI, coil, etc.

I'd start by pulling codes for kicks.

Does your BIL have a fuel pressure tester?

The EEC relay is housed in the CCRM - that is something to remember/consider.

Good luck Paul.

 

[Blackened302]

pulled the codes (i think i did it correctly) and got:

324
134
211 (came out twice).

there were a couple others i didn't manage to get, and the Advance's obd-i printer isn't working (that's right near my house).

there is fuel pressure (not verified w/ a guage, but i drained the pressure, primed the pump a couple times, pushed the valve and fuel splurged out at a pretty high pressure). not very safe/effective, but it's all i can do right now.

BIL's coming over in a while to help check if there is spark.

gonna try and decipher those code, for now. thanks for the help, gents--any more will be much appreciated.


**EDIT: couldn't find the other two codes, but the 211 that came out twice seems to be the PIP code. i'll see if my BIL can bring a spare dizzy and see if that works.

 

[95mustang_gt]

Since it is the pip, try roll starting the car if you have a manual.When my pip went bad it wouldnt start.I would have to leave it alone for 10mins and it would start right up .

 

[The Green GT]

I dont see the 324 and 134 codes either but the 211 is what I got when my PIP went out.

 

[The Green GT]

Since it is the pip, try roll starting the car if you have a manual.When my pip went bad it wouldnt start.I would have to leave it alone for 10mins and it would start right up .

Mine wouldnt start at all. When it died it kinda felt like the coil was going bad. The car was jerking, shift light randomly flashing, tach flying all over the place. Then it died and never started again (with that distributor). I let it cool for like a day and it still didnt start. When mine fried it fried. lol But sometimes they just get overheated and need to cool. But they still need to be replaced.

 

[Blackened302]

this the pip?

 

[Blackened302]

alright, no spark.

judging from your words, JT, i take it the PIP is fine if there is no spark? what's the TFI? should i look to the coil next?


then again, i did get the 211 code...

bleh!!! the coil is a week old and i can't find my orig, so i can't really test it out that way.

 

[HISSIN50]

95Mustang GT, I believe his car cranks so there's no need for a compression start.

Nice work narrowing things down. Two minutes of testing and I'd feel good about swapping parts.

Good luck.

 

[The Green GT]

Thats it but you need a press to change the sensor. I just changed the entire dist.

And when my PIP went south I had no spark at all either.

 

[HISSIN50]

judging from your words, JT, i take it the PIP is fine if there is no spark? what's the TFI? should i look to the coil next?




bleh!!! the coil is a week old and i can't find my orig, so i can't really test it out that way.

Sorry if I was unclear. The PIP is responsible for base spark and fuel injector timing. That's why if you lose both spark and injector pulsing, the PIP is the place to look.

Now if you have injector pulsing or spark (one or the other, or both), then the PIP should be fine. If it goes, you lose both, in other words.

TFI = the ignition module on the passenger wheel well (kinda beneath the MAF).

If you end up having inj pulsing but no spark, put a test light across the coil's terminals (the two thin wires in the grey or black electrical connector). While BIL cranks the engine over, see if your test light flashes. If so, the coil is suspect.

Hope that is clearer.

 

[The Green GT]

Did your buddy have a spare dist? Im willing to bet that the PIP is the problem.

 

[Blackened302]

he did have a spare dizzy, but it was off a fox.

i need a press to change the PIP?

hehe, i'm sorry, JT, but it's still unclear. if i don't have spark, the PIP is bad? i'm sure under normal circumstances i'd've gotten it the first time, but i'm not in a very clear state of mind.

the PIP is making sense because of the following:
1. 211 code
2. hosed down the engine bay yesterday, so water may have gotten into the dizzy


gonna take a break for a few minutes then try and tackle this by tonight.

thanks, so far, gentlmen. i appreciate the continuous help.

 

[95mustang_gt]

You have to press the dizzy gear out to get to the pip.Its pretty easy from there,but then you have to press the gear back in.

 

[Blackened302]

You have to press the dizzy gear out to get to the pip.Its pretty easy from there,but then you have to press the gear back in.

i won't need a special tool, though, will i?

 

[Blackened302]

i won't need a special tool, though, will i?

alright, gonna give it a shot--just bought the PIP a while ago. going out of town tomorrow and i'd like to leave w/ peace of mind knowing that my car works (for a while, at least, before something else breaks, lol). hope i don't need a special tool to change the PIP.



edit: k, couldn't get the gear off so i'm gonna wait for morning. in the meantime, gonna enjoy some brews! have a good one, gentlemen!

 

[HISSIN50]

Paul, we'll get this.

If you have:
no spark and no injector pulsing, the PIP is really likely bad (and needs replacement).

But If you have EITHER:
Spark or injector pulsing (you only need one of the two), the PIP is okay.

It's never a bad idea to replace the PIP on these cars IMHO. They're cheap and it will fail on ya at some point, so it's a good Preventative maintenence thing anyhow (though I think it might have been your issue anyhow).

A couple links:

Though for fox style TFI's, this has some pics and kinda gives an idea of what you do.
And one more:
FFI's little blurb

In short, you push out the roll pin, remove the gear (there's a special 50 dollar tool for this, or you can use a bearing splitter for this. Some folks use jaws and a vice too. I wonder if a little heat would work and expand the gear enough?). I'd use a bearing splitter and jaws (the BS locks above the gear and the jaws pull the bearing splitter [and gear] off the shaft).
Then you pull the shaft and swap parts. The hard part can be getting the hole to align to reinsert the roll pin. This might fight you or might go easy. Just a heads up.

Good luck Paul.