Decisions decisions Pro M or Holley Terminator X

[bird_dog0347]

Ok so on the Holley Term X kit for foxbody part number 550-937 does this kit run an entirely new engine harness, like what the pro-m kit does? It’s basically a plug and play harness for different years to mate up with existing sensors etc. I had a pro-m kit but it was the universal hot rod harness, ended up never using it. Was a nice set up just didn’t have my year harness and im not guru enough to be able to wire in certain sections and make that universal harness work on my car. I ended up selling it, got my money back. What I really liked about pro-m set up though, was the

For a Holley Term-X in a Fox with a 5.0, I think this is the most plug and play kit available, and the extra parts are courtesy of @SorsCode to make it plug and play. It's showing out of stock, but I don't know if that's cause of Holley or the MF Kustoms components, or both.

Anderson - MF Kustoms Holley Terminator X Fox Body Kit

Anderson Ford Motorsport is the ultimate source of high-quality Ford Mustang performance and racing parts. We provide parts for classic and modern engines.

www.andersonfordmotorsport.com

 

[SorsCode]

For a Holley Term-X in a Fox with a 5.0, I think this is the most plug and play kit available, and the extra parts are courtesy of @SorsCode to make it plug and play. It's showing out of stock, but I don't know if that's cause of Holley or the MF Kustoms components, or both.

Anderson - MF Kustoms Holley Terminator X Fox Body Kit

Anderson Ford Motorsport is the ultimate source of high-quality Ford Mustang performance and racing parts. We provide parts for classic and modern engines.

www.andersonfordmotorsport.com

I believe Anderson is just waiting on Holley ECUs. This was a fun project to build for the community.

 

[96pushrod]

@Reddevil91 The terminator x comes with a brand new harness

 

[Reddevil91]

Alright

For a Holley Term-X in a Fox with a 5.0, I think this is the most plug and play kit available, and the extra parts are courtesy of @SorsCode to make it plug and play. It's showing out of stock, but I don't know if that's cause of Holley or the MF Kustoms components, or both.

Anderson - MF Kustoms Holley Terminator X Fox Body Kit

Anderson Ford Motorsport is the ultimate source of high-quality Ford Mustang performance and racing parts. We provide parts for classic and modern engines.

www.andersonfordmotorsport.com

yeah I saw that one but that basically just connects to your old harness connector, then to the term x ecu. I want a whole new engine harness, on top of the injector harness. I did see in the description of that one that read, use only if you feel your original harness is good if not click here and it leads you to the kit and that’s 550-937F. That comes with a new engine harness, but I’m not sure what the difference is between AFMs kit 937F and Holleys 937 kit non F. I have read the harness lengths are different and the 937F from AFM is fox specific and longer. Not sure how true that is, and why AFM sells that 937F kit for 2k, and Holley sells the 937 kit for 1250.

 

[SorsCode]

Alright

yeah I saw that one but that basically just connects to your old harness connector, then to the term x ecu. I want a whole new engine harness, on top of the injector harness. I did see in the description of that one that read, use only if you feel your original harness is good if not click here and it leads you to the kit and that’s 550-937F. That comes with a new engine harness, but I’m not sure what the difference is between AFMs kit 937F and Holleys 937 kit non F. I have read the harness lengths are different and the 937F from AFM is fox specific and longer. Not sure how true that is, and why AFM sells that 937F kit for 2k, and Holley sells the 937 kit for 1250.

So I can answer this. The AFM 937F is the exact same kit that Holley sold when they sold the 937F kit minus the seat bracket. You get the longer main harness, which is also setup for the Ford 2 wire IAC. The reason why it cost so much more than the standard 937 is because AFM has to piece the kit together and if you do that, the price comes out to be well over $2,200.. The 937 kit from Holley is missing the Coolant Temp Sensor, Manifold Air Temp Sensor, TFI Harness, those three items total ~$130 on top of the original cost, then if you want the longer main harness, that alone will run you ~$475. As you can see the price starts to add up quickly.

As for the Plug and Play adapter, its not meant for everyone. We offer the option to refresh the factory harnesses and replace out the salt and pepper shakers. However still doesn't mean its for everyone. The idea was to make the install super simple and easy and no additional work is needed. You are up and running in an hour, with everything working like gauges, a/c, cruise control, etc. Some folks are just not up to rewiring a car to make everything work, and that is who that kit is built for. We still will sit down and help folks do the Holley install and supply any diagrams needed and support via phone/text.

 

[Reddevil91]

So I can answer this. The AFM 937F is the exact same kit that Holley sold when they sold the 937F kit minus the seat bracket. You get the longer main harness, which is also setup for the Ford 2 wire IAC. The reason why it cost so much more than the standard 937 is because AFM has to piece the kit together and if you do that, the price comes out to be well over $2,200.. The 937 kit from Holley is missing the Coolant Temp Sensor, Manifold Air Temp Sensor, TFI Harness, those three items total ~$130 on top of the original cost, then if you want the longer main harness, that alone will run you ~$475. As you can see the price starts to add up quickly.

As for the Plug and Play adapter, its not meant for everyone. We offer the option to refresh the factory harnesses and replace out the salt and pepper shakers. However still doesn't mean its for everyone. The idea was to make the install super simple and easy and no additional work is needed. You are up and running in an hour, with everything working like gauges, a/c, cruise control, etc. Some folks are just not up to rewiring a car to make everything work, and that is who that kit is built for. We still will sit down and help folks do the Holley install and supply any diagrams needed and support via phone/text.

That’s a great break down man appreciate that. Seems nuts but I wonder when AFM will get those F kits back in. Tempting that the MFK kit is available, at least it seems that way. Funny bc I remember seeing the price for a brand new pro-m kit and was shocked. That’s why when I found that kit locally I jumped on it. Then the harness was an issue, wrong year, COP. kept going back and forth on whether to run regular or COP. Bought the kit for 1200 but a new harness would’ve been 800 I believe, so at that point I just should’ve bought it all brand new imo but I just like all new stuff sometimes. Anyway sold it, got my cash back. Almost pulled a trigger on a new 937 kit for sale on FB but it sold. Maybe I’ll check in with AFM and see if these kits will even come back.

 

[SorsCode]

That’s a great break down man appreciate that. Seems nuts but I wonder when AFM will get those F kits back in. Tempting that the MFK kit is available, at least it seems that way. Funny bc I remember seeing the price for a brand new pro-m kit and was shocked. That’s why when I found that kit locally I jumped on it. Then the harness was an issue, wrong year, COP. kept going back and forth on whether to run regular or COP. Bought the kit for 1200 but a new harness would’ve been 800 I believe, so at that point I just should’ve bought it all brand new imo but I just like all new stuff sometimes. Anyway sold it, got my cash back. Almost pulled a trigger on a new 937 kit for sale on FB but it sold. Maybe I’ll check in with AFM and see if these kits will even come back.

Chat with Donny at AFM. I know the 937F kit will be coming back he is just waiting on parts. I supply him the stuff for the MFK kit which is why those are in stock right now.

 

[mikestang63]

Chat with Donny at AFM. I know the 937F kit will be coming back he is just waiting on parts. I supply him the stuff for the MFK kit which is why those are in stock right now.

TO me at this stage in my life, I am willing to pay a little more to not have to hack up wiring harnesses and splice things together.If this is plug n play that allows you to wire in the A/C, IAC,, gauges.. it is well worth a few hundred.

 

[SorsCode]

TO me at this stage in my life, I am willing to pay a little more to not have to hack up wiring harnesses and splice things together.If this is plug n play that allows you to wire in the A/C, IAC,, gauges.. it is well worth a few hundred.

So the Plug and Play solution I designed you don’t need to wire in anything. Remove your factory ECU, install our adapter in place of the factory ECU. Run our main harness to the Holley, supply Holley power, install wideband, and you are done. Everything works, gauges, IAC, A/C, Cruise Control, etc.

 

[mikestang63]

So the Plug and Play solution I designed you don’t need to wire in anything. Remove your factory ECU, install our adapter in place of the factory ECU. Run our main harness to the Holley, supply Holley power, install wideband, and you are done. Everything works, gauges, IAC, A/C, Cruise Control, etc.

in researching this a bit, if your existing wiring harness is good, it appears you can simply buy the Terminator X ECU and MF Kustoms adaptor and 3.5" hand held and retain your stock gauges, sensors, AC, IAC, TPS, etc. Looks like about $1000 cheaper option IF you want to reuse your existing harnesses but upgrade to the Holley ECU, This way you can always swap out the Holley Terminator to another car and/or easily go back to the factory EEC.

 

[SorsCode]

in researching this a bit, if your existing wiring harness is good, it appears you can simply buy the Terminator X ECU and MF Kustoms adaptor and 3.5" hand held and retain your stock gauges, sensors, AC, IAC, TPS, etc. Looks like about $1000 cheaper option IF you want to reuse your existing harnesses but upgrade to the Holley ECU, This way you can always swap out the Holley Terminator to another car and/or easily go back to the factory EEC.

That was the idea. Highly recommend the USB to CAN adapter for live tuning and setting up the IAC.

 

[Reddevil91]

Welp I went on and did a thing. Sold the pro-m set up I had, got what I paid for it. Had been looking on AFM for a bit, checking in and randomly saw it not saying out of stock. Called and chatted with Donny from AFM, he said yup I actually have one 937F kit available. Kept contemplating and watching it almost like I wanted it to disappear!?! Then remembered he said the MF Kustoms kit was the same price which I thought originally it was cheaper but maybe not, but that one runs off the old harness. For the same price I figured this is a no brainer but kept watching. Till one night I said DO IT aka one to many “Whiskeys” So now I own a 937F kit and I’m ready to get this thing in!! But…… I think this might be beyond my knowledge for installation.

 

[Grn92LX]

The engine bay harness is all plug and play. You will need to wire up the ignition coil and fuel pump. You'll wire up the fans as well if you have electric. Get the can cable for live tuning and setting up the ford iac pwm output. Watch Holleys videos for firmware updates and never use a splitter in the can connector while doing so.

Ive had this kit for a few years now along with the 6.86" pro dash.

You WILL need a relay for the fuel pump and I highly suggest a relay for the ignition coil. I would suggest this relay for them: https://leashelectronics.com/products/dual-70-amp-relay-board This makes it easier, cleaner and theyre not cheap china relays.

I ended up building a relay panel hidden underneath the seat where the ecu mounts. Im using the leash relays with a leash "big dog 2" distribution block for all my ground and ignition feeds. I also have 2 distribution blocks for my sensor grounds and sensor 5v built off the power tap harness.

 

[mikestang63]

You will need to get the adapter harness to run AC ( a guy sells them on FB and EBAY) so you dont have to hack up your existing one. Also I would recommend using low doller sending units vs. the Holley higher priced ones. If you are boosted you will need a 3 BAR MAP sensor.

 

[Reddevil91]

The engine bay harness is all plug and play. You will need to wire up the ignition coil and fuel pump. You'll wire up the fans as well if you have electric. Get the can cable for live tuning and setting up the ford iac pwm output. Watch Holleys videos for firmware updates and never use a splitter in the can connector while doing so.

Ive had this kit for a few years now along with the 6.86" pro dash.

You WILL need a relay for the fuel pump and I highly suggest a relay for the ignition coil. I would suggest this relay for them: https://leashelectronics.com/products/dual-70-amp-relay-board This makes it easier, cleaner and theyre not cheap china relays.

I ended up building a relay panel hidden underneath the seat where the ecu mounts. Im using the leash relays with a leash "big dog 2" distribution block for all my ground and ignition feeds. I also have 2 distribution blocks for my sensor grounds and sensor 5v built off the power tap harness.

Ah gotcha thanks for the info, I do have electric fans and was curious about all that. Curious on the gauges, I don’t have stock gauge cluster but running an auto meter set up, that plug and played into the original connectors for the original cluster. Will there be any issues there or something I’ll have to do. Also with the pro-m it’s was very picky on the widebands and idk if there is a deal but he recommends innovate but ppl have gotten zeitronix to work. I have some cheap glow shift gauges mounted in the cowl triple pod, boost even though I’m not there yet, wideband and fuel pressure. Does the Holley set up recommend certain gauges widebands or will any be ok? Going to look into the relay you linked.

 

[Reddevil91]

You will need to get the adapter harness to run AC ( a guy sells them on FB and EBAY) so you dont have to hack up your existing one. Also I would recommend using low doller sending units vs. the Holley higher priced ones. If you are boosted you will need a 3 BAR MAP sensor.

Currently AC deleted, I know I know but it’s gone and just love the engine bay being less mess and more clean. I don’t have any boost currently but maybe someday I’ll get there.

 

[Grn92LX]

The Holley kits come with the wideband stuff on the harness. There will be an adapter harness in the kit since the terminator X only uses a bosch 4.9 sensor. Its plug and play.

Im not sure about your autometer gauges. They should have their own sending units if theyre electric. When you remove the factory wire harness, the c110 connector feeds get removed and you had to wire back up the tach, oil and coolant gauges. Battery, speedo and fuel level are unefffected.

Get the lowdoller sensors for oil and fuel since the holley harness is already wired for it. You just have to input the sensor scaling in the software. I have all lowdoller sensors on mine fuel pressure, oil pressure and I just added coolant pressure. I also added an aem wideband controller into the pro dash to moniter/log the other side.

 

[FastDriver]

I work with MegaSquirt systems on a daily basis and they absolutely cannot be beat for the money. They can do everything a holley can do and then some unless you are going with a dominator. Unfortunately Holley has been plagued with driver failure issues [ignition and injector] for the last couple of years. Dont get me wrong all of the companies are going to have ECU failures but I know quite a few shops that no longer install some Holley products due to the number of bad units they have had. I personally do not work with holley often enough to have experienced this myself.
All ECU tune relatively the same, the only difference is in the software its all fuel air spark.
I dont like how some of the ECU lock you out of the PID settings or they have a limited use for certain pins. This alone is why I prefer the MS systems.
I really like the FuelTech stuff as well.

If you want plug and play nothing beats a PIMPXS ecu for the foxbody. For the Mod motor stuff the MS3ProPNP from DIY is the go to for me as it literally has everything working in the factory harness [ for a manual transmission ]
If i want to replace the harness in a V8 project car, I buy an MS3pro with LS drop on harness and repin the harness for whatever firing order is needed.

Steve, I know you don't have a crystal ball, but your shaking up your magic 8 ball with the following question may still be informative enough: With all of the EPA performance-killing regulations abounding, do you see dark clouds on the horizon for finding stand-alones in the future? I'm asking in consideration of the idea that it may be better to get ahead of it and put a system on the shelf for future use.

 

[FastDriver]

It's a built T-5 world. And anything is better than this AOD it's sucks the fun outta driving the car completely. Also I'm not looking for anything but 450 to the wheels. So it should hold up for a little while then when the motor is done maybe a T56

Stick with a soft organic clutch, like a King Cobra or Ford HD. Stay on stock sized all-seasons. When you upgrade the trans, then go to stickier tires & clutch. Your driveline needs a fuse. If you get sticky, hard-hitting stuff, the fuse is your T5.

 

[FastDriver]

I’m just saying , I agree with your answer as well as a91 - I just find it funny the guys that steer people away from a lot of stuff in here have never used it themselves . This is definitely a forum where you see a miniority of Holley stuff or people using it . But it’s plenty capable and readily used almost everywhere like I said . Doesn’t mean I don’t love or want to try others .

I'm a coder at work. R, Python, VBA, etc... Aside from the more natural inclination of a salesman to sell you something he can profit from, I've noticed that some of the other guys at work will seriously argue about how excel is the only way to go doing data analysis. You cannot convince them otherwise. It can take 40 more minutes to do the same task, but they won't budge. Why? Because it's what they're comfortable with. The lesson for me is not that they're dumb, it's that it's human nature to believe that one's most familiar/comfortable/preferential tool is easy to become biased about. Confirmation bias is a real thing. I've become tool agnostic. I don't care what the tool is if it gets the job done. I used to be most comfortable in Python, and before that Excel & VBA. Now, it's R, but I don't begrudge anyone else their preferences. Use something that you know will get the job done, first, and that you are comfortable with second. Or, that you can learn and make new advances/progress on, third. Beyond that, it just doesn't matter.

This translates directly to these systems. Big Stuff 3 was the cat's pajamas when I first decided I was going to get a stand alone. Since then, I've seen people call it garbage. What happened? Holly came along, the industry sold new stuff, and preferences changed. Now, this thread seems to indicate the tide is turning away from Holly, too. Whatever. The BS3 is still working well for me, but when I have another need, I'm probably going to pick up a different system, because I *like* the broadening of my knowledge base and experience.