Diablo uses my 05 for a test car for the PREDATOR

gilmoujr · Dec 9, 2004

Dyno Sheet?

racinready300ex · Dec 9, 2004

I herd of someone with a srt-4, they put a piggy back set up on it. They blew there motor. They returned everything to stock. The dealer told them that they could check and see if there had been anything odd in the pcm, or and CEL's, even if the ecu was reset. They unplugged the battery for about a hour, and the dealer could find anything in the ecu.

M1Rifle · Dec 9, 2004

MrMorden said:
I would NOT mess with the factory rev-limiter!!! This is a new engine from Ford...nobody knows yet how strong the valve springs are, what the exact valve clearances are, etc.

Moving the rev limiter to 7krpm allows you to swing up and through 6300rpm and not worry about cutting out.

Most older cars don't have rev limiters. You don't absolutely need one, and 7krpm seems like a good "idiot limit". I would expect most poeple to NOT go let it sing at 6850 all day long.

65 A Code · Dec 9, 2004

When do we get to see the Dyno sheets?

slegos888stang · Dec 9, 2004

eric n said:
seat of the pants o meter

its called the butt dyno

J666Z · Dec 9, 2004

i've ben calling Diablo all day trying to get them to e-mail the dyno sheets and the videos of the car on the dyno, I guess they are busy, b/c i'm stil lwaiting to get them. as for the question asked a few posts back, we are planing on building a 5.0L modular stroker short block w/ fully built forged internals. as for the warrentee, I could care less, this is not my daily driven car, if something breaks, I have time to fix it... so no worries... why should I hold off on making this car the way I want it... it's my toy... toys break (at least the fast ones do)

MrMorden · Dec 9, 2004

M1Rifle said:
Moving the rev limiter to 7krpm allows you to swing up and through 6300rpm and not worry about cutting out.

Most older cars don't have rev limiters. You don't absolutely need one, and 7krpm seems like a good "idiot limit". I would expect most poeple to NOT go let it sing at 6850 all day long.

This may be true (though the Boss and Cobra-Jet Mustangs of 1969-1973 did have rev limiters), but it's not the point.

There are very few people that have never missed a shift or done something else to cause their motor to rev well beyond the intended limit. The rev limiter protects you in this case. with the limiter at 7000rpm, you are probably floating valves and running a real danger of a valve/piston contact.

If your target is 6300rpm, why not set the limiter at 6500? That way you still have some cushion. My real point is that NOBODY KNOWS YET what the rpm limit is for these motors, and most of us don't want to be the guy that trashes his $5000 motor for the sake of a $250 tune.

M1Rifle · Dec 9, 2004

MrMorden said:
If your target is 6300rpm, why not set the limiter at 6500? That way you still have some cushion. My real point is that NOBODY KNOWS YET what the rpm limit is for these motors, and most of us don't want to be the guy that trashes his $5000 motor for the sake of a $250 tune.

Actually, I'm all for OTHER people to push their cars to the point of blowing motors. How else are we going to find out?

I don't want to see him break a motor either. But I've had all sorts of manual transmission cars that didn't have rev limiters at all. Just because he moved it to 7krpm doesn't mean he's going to go bounce it off the rev limiter all the time.

I'm wondering how all those cars produced before rev limiters were common place kept from just exploding all the time.... no, just kidding, I know for a fact that a lack of a rev limiter doesn't screw up an engine. People winding out their motors screw up engines.

GTP2GTO · Dec 9, 2004

M1Rifle said:
Moving the rev limiter to 7krpm allows you to swing up and through 6300rpm and not worry about cutting out.

Most older cars don't have rev limiters. You don't absolutely need one, and 7krpm seems like a good "idiot limit". I would expect most poeple to NOT go let it sing at 6850 all day long.

No worries about valve float? Do we know what the springs are like on thse motors?

Also...Is it 50whp or 35whp. Why did it all of a sudden change? Why would you state 50whp(why would they tell you that?)
And also, arent you selling this stuff too?
Sounds kinda fishy. I heard about a legitimate 20whp gain. But come on?

M1Rifle · Dec 9, 2004

GTP2GTO said:
No worries about valve float? Do we know what the springs are like on thse motors?

Hey, I didn't say the motor would run at 7000rpm.

Neither did the 289 2-barrel on my 1966 fastback I had in high school. It had no rev limiter (heck, it didn't even have a TACH), and somehow, some way, that motor didn't kill itself.

If he wants his rev limiter moved up to 7krpm, the more power to him (no pun intended). How in the HECK do you suppose we hear about longevity issues at high rpm... are you waiting for someone to put a stock 4.6-3V on an engine dyno stand and run it for 20K miles with varying high-rpm loads?

I don't believe you guys! You say "better not do it before we have more info".

This is the adventuresome type of owner who will be part of the process. I have no reason to believe that 7krpm is good for this motor, by the way. I wouldn't do it. But if he wants to, you should be glad he's getting some data for the rest of us.

J666Z · Dec 10, 2004

I was told I was looking at an approx. 50 RWHP gain by them on the phone, when I went to pick it up, that is what I got. I'm not going to complain. Yes I was excited to have 50 horse, but 35 is good enough for now.

Rootus · Dec 10, 2004

I think that while this is impressive, what is critical to remember is that Ford can and will void your warranty if they find out about the re-flash. It is nice to see a good bump in performance from a re-tune, but lets face the facts -- Ford could have had the same performance improvement in their own tune if they had wanted to, but they need to allow for all kinds of situations. Putting an aftermarket tune generally takes away this buffer zone, and makes you much more vulnerable to situations that could cause damage to the motor. So go in with your eyes open, and make sure 25-35 rwhp is worth the risk to you (especially at this stage of the game, we don't have a history yet to determine how reliable these motors really are).

And for those who think that re-flashing the computer to the stock tune will somehow confuse Ford. Remember that at the very least you have to do it well in advance -- I have a 2003 Cobra, I can tell you from experience that when you re-flash through the OBD2 port, you set a code, and it takes a while to clear that code (and you cannot clear it with a scanner). Remember the guy with the 2005 that had the motor take a dump? Ford says that it happened at 900 RPM. Hmmmm.... they managed to record the event. What else do you think they might be able to record? That's the point -- be careful, because they can undoubtedly record much more than we know.

Dave

max2000jp · Dec 10, 2004

Rootus said:
I think that while this is impressive, what is critical to remember is that Ford can and will void your warranty if they find out about the re-flash. It is nice to see a good bump in performance from a re-tune, but lets face the facts -- Ford could have had the same performance improvement in their own tune if they had wanted to, but they need to allow for all kinds of situations. Putting an aftermarket tune generally takes away this buffer zone, and makes you much more vulnerable to situations that could cause damage to the motor. So go in with your eyes open, and make sure 25-35 rwhp is worth the risk to you (especially at this stage of the game, we don't have a history yet to determine how reliable these motors really are).

And for those who think that re-flashing the computer to the stock tune will somehow confuse Ford. Remember that at the very least you have to do it well in advance -- I have a 2003 Cobra, I can tell you from experience that when you re-flash through the OBD2 port, you set a code, and it takes a while to clear that code (and you cannot clear it with a scanner). Remember the guy with the 2005 that had the motor take a dump? Ford says that it happened at 900 RPM. Hmmmm.... they managed to record the event. What else do you think they might be able to record? That's the point -- be careful, because they can undoubtedly record much more than we know.

Dave

Ford cannot void your warranty persay, just for the flash. Read the Magnusson Act on Sema's webite. Ford has to prove that it was the programming that caused the malfunction.

one2gamble · Dec 10, 2004

Rootus said:
I think that while this is impressive, what is critical to remember is that Ford can and will void your warranty if they find out about the re-flash. It is nice to see a good bump in performance from a re-tune, but lets face the facts -- Ford could have had the same performance improvement in their own tune if they had wanted to, but they need to allow for all kinds of situations. Putting an aftermarket tune generally takes away this buffer zone, and makes you much more vulnerable to situations that could cause damage to the motor. So go in with your eyes open, and make sure 25-35 rwhp is worth the risk to you (especially at this stage of the game, we don't have a history yet to determine how reliable these motors really are).

Dave

Ford built the tune into the car so they can bump the hp up in a few years without having to dig into the motor. They have said it themselves in not so many words if you listen to what the mustang guys say.

Rootus · Dec 10, 2004

max2000jp said:
Ford cannot void your warranty persay, just for the flash. Read the Magnusson Act on Sema's webite. Ford has to prove that it was the programming that caused the malfunction.

You might want to do some research to see how often Ford has lost in that situation. I guess if you think you can afford the legal costs, go for it.

Dave

max2000jp · Dec 10, 2004

Rootus said:
You might want to do some research to see how often Ford has lost in that situation. I guess if you think you can afford the legal costs, go for it.

Dave

I am sure you can reach an agreement without lawyer costs. Ford has to prove that the chip caused the engine failure, per the magnusson act. Ford SHOULD NOT void your bumper to bumper warranty for adding a chip or springs. They might not cover certain aspects of the warranty, per what the magnusson act outlines.

tjones2 · Dec 31, 2004

So what happen to this thread, it starts out gaining 50HP from the Diablo Predator and now nothing? We have heard of many stangs getting tuned with the SCT Flash and gaining anywhere from 25 to 30HP already. Is the Predator out, has anyone else verified any gains with it yet? Also where are the Dyno sheets that I thought this guy was going to post for us??

hotmustang331 · Dec 31, 2004

max2000jp said:
Ford cannot void your warranty persay, just for the flash. Read the Magnusson Act on Sema's webite. Ford has to prove that it was the programming that caused the malfunction.

Um if they find the engine was run to 7000RPMs the they sure as heck are going to void the warrenty, even if it was taken 50RPMs past the factory set of 6250 they will not cover it, because the engine was not intended to be run that high. Ok now to the owner, 7K is WAY too many RPMs on the stock rods, that engine will let go its just a matter of time if your running it that high...you see that red zone at 6K?That means that your engine can be damaged if you put the needle in that zone, and passing 1000RPMS past that zone is not only pointless (ie its not going to help shifting that high) its not smart. You either VERY rich, or are in debt up to your eye balls, adding things like this to a brand new car and taking risks like that.Would have been much cheaper to wait a little while and bought a used one, then tear it apart.But hey its your car, thats just the way I feel about it.BTW was not flaming.JMO

LightningBug · Dec 31, 2004

If you are worried about the warranty at all, then you should not be modding the car. It's as simple as that. I had less than 1000 miles on both my '03 Mach 1 and '05 GT before I started modding. I chose to do so because I can afford to take the chance. Not everyone is in that position.

You can argue until the cows come home about whether or not Ford can tell if you have done something, in the end, it makes no difference.

5.8CAPRI · Dec 31, 2004

Ford cannot void your warranty persay, just for the flash. Read the Magnusson Act on Sema's webite. Ford has to prove that it was the programming that caused the malfunction.

Ford can, will, and does void engine warranty's for a flash or tuner. Just go over to the Diesel sites and see for yourself. In the diesel world tuning is HUGE, worth easy gains of at least 100hp and 200lb-ft of torque. The new 6.0L PSD's had a lot of problems when they came out and Ford voided many many warranty's because of a tuner or chip to get out of the expensive repairs. Some dealers will overlook this, some will not.
Now with that said, here is what I have done in the past. I had an extended warranty on 96 camry we used to have, when the thing started blowing a puff of blue smoke in the mornings. Obviously needed valve guide seals. So I went down to the local City Courthouse, paid my $35 for a buisness license and made the repairs myself, for which the warranty company paid ME for the parts and labor to repair it . Replaced the seals, and made $1200 in the process.

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