Dont laugh at me for asking this....

[RedlineNSX]

well, on my vast quest of starting out building my car on a budget and planning for the future (thinking a KB)....i came across the idea of ignition. here is where i show my ignorance: im not quite sure what an ignition updrage will offer? what kind of advantages do you gain? any loss? worth it? thanks for all your help in explaining this to me!

 

[Highbredcloud]

I think you should spend you money elsewhere...if anything just get a better coil if it is going on a stock Mustang...even though there is nothing wrong with the stock coil...What an ignition initially does if give it multi-spark so that the fuel is burnt more efficiently...this will result in better performance maybe even better gas millage but on a modded car...The only time you should think about an ignition is once you do heads, cam, intake swap or when you get a supercharger...other than that don't wast your time...BTW: if you were to get an ignition go with Crane HI-6...it is way better than MSD 6 AL for the same price...Hope this helps.

 

[RedlineNSX]

yes, thanks. i guess i just get too eager w/ upgrades. i have to realize that im not going to be in the 12's overnight

 

[GMstomper]

I think you should spend you money elsewhere...if anything just get a better coil if it is going on a stock Mustang...even though there is nothing wrong with the stock coil...What an ignition initially does if give it multi-spark so that the fuel is burnt more efficiently...this will result in better performance maybe even better gas millage but on a modded car...The only time you should think about an ignition is once you do heads, cam, intake swap or when you get a supercharger...other than that don't wast your time...BTW: if you were to get an ignition go with Crane HI-6...it is way better than MSD 6 AL for the same price...Hope this helps.

I have to disagree on this one. The multi-spark causes you to burn more of the fuel in the combustion chamber. More efficient fuel burn does mean more power and slightly better milage. You also get the added bennefit of the chambers staying cleaner because of better fuel combustion...which means less power loss due to build up over the same amount of time. Saving you on how often you need to have the injectors and combustion chambers proffesionally cleaned (no dumbing in a bottle of crap you bought at pep boys will do the job).

 

[Highbredcloud]

I have to disagree on this one. The multi-spark causes you to burn more of the fuel in the combustion chamber. More efficient fuel burn does mean more power and slightly better milage. You also get the added bennefit of the chambers staying cleaner because of better fuel combustion...which means less power loss due to build up over the same amount of time. Saving you on how often you need to have the injectors and combustion chambers proffesionally cleaned (no dumbing in a bottle of crap you bought at pep boys will do the job).

Why are you disagree with me? re-read my post...On a stock motor you will not gain or see much of improvement...You can keep you chambers clean by buying a $5.00 can on seafoam...so why spend $200.00+

 

[GMstomper]

I just disagree that its not worth it on a mostly stock motor. Its just because I rather have it stay cleaner and have to do it less often. Plus if a mod will make your car run cleaner I feel its always worth it...every lil bit less polition helps. The same reason why I'm dead set against off road h-pipes.

 

[Highbredcloud]

I just disagree that its not worth it on a mostly stock motor. Its just because I rather have it stay cleaner and have to do it less often. Plus if a mod will make your car run cleaner I feel its always worth it...every lil bit less polition helps. The same reason why I'm dead set against off road h-pipes.

Sorry but this makes no sense...it's not like the cumbustion chambers will be cleaner...with the ignition box...there will still be carbon build up on the vavles and combustion chambers...You say you want to get power out of things but yet you are against using an off-road H-pipe...? I don't get it...

 

[sleeper89]

Sorry but this makes no sense...it's not like the cumbustion chambers will be cleaner...with the ignition box...there will still be carbon build up on the vavles and combustion chambers...You say you want to get power out of things but yet you are against using an off-road H-pipe...? I don't get it...

it's like this:

we all want more power, some just aren't willing to sacrifice the environment to get it. as i see it, i'm doing enough damage to the air just driving a gas pig, why compound that by removing the emmissions equipment? i know what you're thinking, and i too love to have more power, not to mention the beautiful, unrestricted sound of an off-road H. in fact, i was all gung ho for a while about getting an offroad pipe or banging out my stock cats and removing smog equipment, but then i really thought about it and decided that since it's my d/d car i'll pick up the 1-2 tenths elsewhere.

cool?

-steve

 

[Highbredcloud]

Steve...I appreciate your environmental concern, however, it's not the Mustangs with off road H/X-pipes pulluting the air...it's the semi trucks, school busses and every other industrail machinery...So how come they are exempt from emissions?

 

[GMstomper]

Yes there will still be deposits but it wont build up as quickly if engine is burning fuel more efficiently. hi-flow cats don't cost you that much power vs off road. There are plenty of other ways to make power. I know IL has yet to adopt any form of inspection....either mechanical or emissions. But it will come sooner or later and you won't have a choice if you want to pass. Theres plenty of people in polution controled states who have no problem making power w/cats

 

[Highbredcloud]

Yes there will still be deposits but it wont build up as quickly if engine is burning fuel more efficiently. hi-flow cats don't cost you that much power vs off road. There are plenty of other ways to make power. I know IL has yet to adopt any form of inspection....either mechanical or emissions. But it will come sooner or later and you won't have a choice if you want to pass. Theres plenty of people in polution controled states who have no problem making power w/cats

hmm...well I'm speaking out of experience here when I say this...After I did my H/C/I swap I made sure I cleaned the top of the pistons etc...so they were clean...After about 3 weeks of driving I had to swap my cam out and change two of my valves on the heads since my assistant put the rockers on the wrong side of the pedistal...needless to say after 3 weeks of driving the pistons, valves and chambers were black...just like before...BTW: I had my Crane HI-6 hooked up as well so as you can see that argument that an ignition box will keep the chambers cleaner is irrevelant...The ignition box will be helpful on a modded motor when you are running bigger lb. injectors to help a more effecient air to fuel automization...by providing multi sparks to burn left over gasses from the fuel...or in some cases fuel itself...hence giving it a more efficient burn...

My first mod on my car was American Thunder exhaust and an off road X-pipe...and the car seemed to pick up noticibly at higher RPM's...the RPM's went up so smooth and faster than before...So once again for you to say that an off road pipes don't help out as much as they do is incorrect...

I am aware of the emissions in IL and they are VERY strict...especially near Chicago...but there are ways around it...

 

[Black331Stang]

your right about th emissions stuff, but most states have inspection, how do u think people pass? its done illegally, its not liek there is NO way to pass without cats.

since this totally went off topic id like to add something....about the Crane HI-6,
why do u say its better? last time i looked, if i remember correctly, the crane didnt have a rev limiter (or at least a changable limiter) that is the best thing about the MSD...but if it does have a chip system for the limiter, than i would say, yeah go for crane.

 

[sleeper89]

Steve...I appreciate your environmental concern, however, it's not the Mustangs with off road H/X-pipes pulluting the air...it's the semi trucks, school busses and every other industrail machinery...So how come they are exempt from emissions?

Highbredcloud- mind if i ask your name? i hate using screen names.

i agree that it's ridiculous that the trucks/buses/machines etc are exempt as they are the largest polluters. however, mustangs with offroad pipes do compound the problem. let's face it, even catted vehicles pollute too much. even 1.6L hondas pollute too much. so unless you're a heads up racer in a sanctioned body where every tenth/hp/lb is important why not love the earth and sacrifice a couple hp. the kids you have/may have will love you for it.

BTW- hi flow cats are pretty good these days, should put you within a few hp of no cats.

-steve

 

[Highbredcloud]

your right about th emissions stuff, but most states have inspection, how do u think people pass? its done illegally, its not liek there is NO way to pass without cats.

since this totally went off topic id like to add something....about the Crane HI-6,
why do u say its better? last time i looked, if i remember correctly, the crane didnt have a rev limiter (or at least a changable limiter) that is the best thing about the MSD...but if it does have a chip system for the limiter, than i would say, yeah go for crane.

One of the main reasons I think the Crane HI-6 is better than the MSD 6 AL is because it you can change the rev limiter with a flip of a screw driver...it already built in...and is on the side for easy access...I don't know how you missed that...also the Crane HI-6 has a better seal and is waterproof so you can mount it anywhere...AND comes with a free coil unlike the MSD 6 AL wich you have to by the pills for...Overall the money you spent...Crane is just a better buy...,however, MSD does make better high end stuff...

 

[Highbredcloud]

Highbredcloud- mind if i ask your name? i hate using screen names.

i agree that it's ridiculous that the trucks/buses/machines etc are exempt as they are the largest polluters. however, mustangs with offroad pipes do compound the problem. let's face it, even catted vehicles pollute too much. even 1.6L hondas pollute too much. so unless you're a heads up racer in a sanctioned body where every tenth/hp/lb is important why not love the earth and sacrifice a couple hp. the kids you have/may have will love you for it.

BTW- hi flow cats are pretty good these days, should put you within a few hp of no cats.

-steve

My name is Greg...reason why I don't mind "polluting" is that I have been a witness on many occasion with modded Mustangs passing emission without the cats...Yes believe it or not it's all in the tune...I highly doubt a Mustang with an off road H/X-pipe pullutes even 1/4 of the industrial trucks etc...If the enviornment is the main concern we should focus on things like factories, trains, industrial air condition units to save the earth...High flow cats would be a nice solution but for a good set $400 is very questionalbe...No kids yet and none in the near future...must finish college and get a good job first...

 

[sleeper89]

My name is Greg...reason why I don't mind "polluting" is that I have been a witness on many occasion with modded Mustangs passing emission without the cats...Yes believe it or not it's all in the tune...I highly doubt a Mustang with an off road H/X-pipe pullutes even 1/4 of the industrial trucks etc...If the enviornment is the main concern we should focus on things like factories, trains, industrial air condition units to save the earth...High flow cats would be a nice solution but for a good set $400 is very questionalbe...No kids yet and none in the near future...must finish college and get a good job first...

you're absolutely correct, it is all in the tune. i too have seen cat-less and airpump-less modded stangs pass emmissions. and i also agree there are bigger factors than a few muscle cars running around. and again, i agree that good high flow cats are costly, maybe too costly
i guess the point is that it all comes down to the individual, and for the few hp difference its not a big issue either way. i used to want an offroad pipe, then decided against it for two main reasons:
1) pollution
2) sound- i like the quiet exhaust for a sleeper

who knows, maybe in a years time i'll decide i want to try and pass the sniffer with no smog stuff. or maybe i'll decide i want the offroad pipe.

take care

-steve

 

[The Shape]

I am gonna add my 2 cents worth. I totally respect your views on the enviroment. I have an off road h-pipe because my cats were clogged and the off road pipe was much cheaper than a high flow catted pipe simple as that. We don't have inspections at all here , but when and if we do I am sure I will be buying a catted pipe. As far as the ignition goes I have no experience with the MSD or the Crane systems. I did however spend 50 bucks on an accel high output coil once. I did alot of tune up work as well as changing my EGR valve the day I put the coil on. The car idled very rough afterwards I checked everything out and posted a dozen threads trying to figure it out. Finally as a last thought I bought a 12 dollar standard replacement coil and the problems went away. I dont know if it was just a bad coil or what, but since my car is basically stock I have always just used stock replacement igniton parts since then. I also think my car runs better on 87 octane than it did when I didn't know anything about octane ratings and ran 93 all of the time, but that is a whole nother story...........